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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

I don't agree, not even close

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jdemaris

09-28-2007 07:54:04




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I guess we'll have to disagree about a few things - first being human nature.

I don't have to go back and read anything - I'm well read, pretty well educated, have lots of skilled work experience - good and bad - and have a good memory.

I am well aware of the good labor unions did - at one time - and for the most-part, that time is past. Presently, they exist to extort money from consumers and taxpayers - directly and indirectly.
If every type of employment in this country had a strong labor union, and a McDonalds worker got paid $60,000 a year - a hamburger would cost $15, and we'd all be back to square-one. A $100,000 annual salary would be worth $50,000. Taxes and prices up all over. Income would have no relationship to skill level, there'd be little incentive for anyone to work, and/or innovate - and then - we could call this place France #2.
Pay is a relative entity - high pay can only exist in a reference frame where someone else gets low pay. In the natural order of life - call it "natural selection" - some do better than others because they are smarter, or stronger, or work harder, etc. Modern labor unions try to level the playing field for their members - and make everyone else pay for it. Don't get me wrong - I don't wish to see low achievers starve - but - they also do not have an inherent right to be supported - at a high level - by others.

There are not too many U.S. citizens that are starving and cannot provide for their children.
There are endless government hand-out programs. I could quit work tomorrow, go on welfare, and get much better medical benefits than I get right now - that I pay every month for.

In regard to bad working conditions - I've only got to look back 25 years - not 50 or 100. I was working in a non-OSHA compliant shop, virtually forced to work seven days a week in highly unsafe conditions, etc. I say "virtually" because nobody had a gun to my head. But, I had four kids to feed and there were few employment opportunities in this area at the time.
I did, however, move to this rural area by my own choice - and had left an area and an union job to move to a nicer area. My idea, my choice, my fault, and my responsibility. I finally moved on, went into business for myself, and have done fine. And hey - I could fire anyone I want, whenever I want - if I had employees, which I don't. I did once and didn't like it.

You mention a time when workers got dismissed if they complained? As far as I'm concerned, that's the way it should be - and - legally - that's the way things are, right now, in the state of New York - unless you are a government or contract worker. New York - legally - is an "at will" state, which means - an employee can quit anytime with no notice or stated reason. And, a boss can fire anyone he/she wants - also without notice or a reason. That's the law and I'm fine with it. It's called free will.

You mention me, or my wife having a blind eye to what people really want at her workplace? I suspect you are a bit clueless to that situation. Most of the people working there do it for free - they volunteer. And, there's a waiting list of people who want to do it. Many are retired and highly skilled people who just happen to love the museum and like working and spending time there. Those that are full-time paid employees - for the most part are only there because they like the place and lifestyle. All have - at the minimum - masters degrees in Museum Studies, and/or History/Anthropology and also - most have years of hands-on working experience - usually with blacksmithing, wood working, mill-wrighting, etc. I'm sure, that once in awhile someone works there that is disgruntled, feels underpaid, and would love a union to come in and demand an artificial wage. And, if that ever happened - the Museum Board would shut the place down. My wife could leave, anytime, and get a job elsewhere at twice or three times the pay she's getting now. But, she is there by choice - she likes spending her time at an 1800s water-powered saw and grist mill. It's sort of an escape from modern reality - she likes it and has no desire to change anything. Many to most of the people I've met like her - that choose to work as a craftsman - or at a living history museum - have different priorities than many other types of folk. No union needed - to ruin the place.

You say good work habits are "breadinto people" - so, I'll ask - where did these good habits start? You seem to be presenting a "chicken or the egg" argument.

You also state "Unions are just like any other organization, you get back what you put in to it."
I don't want to be insulting here, but do you really believe - that you get back - whatever you put into any organization? I guess you need to give your working definition for the word - since I don't agree, at all.

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