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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Disc mowers

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Hay DR

03-11-2006 14:17:28




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RodinNS,
We started selling PZ disc mowers in the late 1970's. We were 3 times the #1 volume for PZ in the USA. Then we went to Lely/Vermeer in 1987 which was the first shaft drive mower. We were 2 time #1 for Lely in the USA. We have sold thousands of new and use disc mowers. We have had to fix every design out there that has been traded into us. We can tell you from experience dealing with every design out there, we will put our HayMAXX mower we make here in the USA up against any mowers made any where in the world. Kuhn does make a good mower but it's yesterday's technology. Kuhn's cutterbar was designed by PZ in the 1960's. Kuhn ran on PZ patents until they ran out in the 1980's.
-Gear drive oil bath cutterbar mowers have a third more moving parts than our shaft drive mowers.
-Gear drive oil bath cutterbar mowers take 20-30% more minimum HP to operate them than HayMAXX shaft drive mowers. -Gear drive oil bath cutterbar mowers are heavier and are not as stable on smaller tractors under 60 HP.
-Gear drive oil bath cutterbar mowers recommend the oil to be changed once a year, The HayMAXX mowers use EP-00 grease that lasts 10+ years
-Gear drive oil bath cutterbar mowers have lubrication problems in the hill country with oil starved bearings.
- HayMAXX mowers use sealed Electric Motor Quality bearings and the EP-00 grease has only to lubricate the gears. You can run a HayMaxx disc mower straight up and down all day long. Try that with a Oil bath mower and it will lock up in a short time period.
-Each cutting head has it's own gearbox with everything sealed inside that gearbox. The oil bath mowers cutting heads all run in the same reservoir of oil. Kuhn, Vicon,Krone all have magnates in the cutterbar to help clean and catch metal parts floating around in that reservoir of oil. If a bearing goes out it could damage the entire cutterbar in the oil bath style cutterbars.
-Our HayMAXX disc mowers can be used on smaller more fuel efficient tractors that compact the ground less.

MOW with MAXX! HayMAXX disc mowers are made in the USA!

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RodInNS

03-12-2006 20:24:06




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 Re: Disc mowers in reply to Hay DR, 03-11-2006 14:17:28  
Hay Dr. Well, I'll happily put my Kuhn against anything in the world too. It's served me well, which is more than can be said for some others I've had, and others. Oil bath bars certainly have their problems. True, when they destruct, it is major. Although, I think if they are properly maintained, they will be far superior in terms of reliability. The PZ230 we had used a combination of gear:gear/top cross shaft drive. As far as I'm concerned, the whole machine was a nightmare. The Deere's with the Kuhn bar were very prominent in my area, and an old 1327 will still bring a strong price.

I would also be curious to know why your mowers demand 20-30% less power? That's a large figure. As to the Kuhn/Zweegers relationship; I would have thought it exactly the opposite. I was under the impression that Kuhn was the first. Regardless, they outperformed Zweegers.

As a general rule, I prefer to get my hay gear from Europe. Rake is a Kuhn, baler is a Claas. From my viewpoint, there is much to be learned on this side of the pond with regard to building for high capacity and a high service factor. I've got a yard littered with North American relics that are too costly to keep running. A NewHolland 254 tedder/rake being prominent among them. To each their own I guess.

Rod

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Hay DR

03-12-2006 21:16:26




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 Re: Disc mowers in reply to RodInNS, 03-12-2006 20:24:06  
There is no question that PZ was first with the patents. Once old man Zweegers developed the drum mower and the disc mower cutterbar, he lived on the license fees of other companies. Vicon actually was second in development of the disc mower. The PZ mowers you speak about were designed in the 1960's. Yes Kuhn has improved the PZ technology. Lely did not want to pay license fees to either Vicon or PZ so they developed the shaft drive in the 1970's.
We rebuilt a JD 1327- 12 years ago for a customer and plainly stamped on the cutterbar was the PZ patent license #.
Most of the MFG's mowers all do a good job but there are some draw backs with the gear oil-bath cutterbar. Kuhn and Krone likely make the best of these style cutterbars.
There a 2 main reasons why that the Lely style cutterbar needs 20-30% less HP than any oil bath cutterbar. 1. The Lely style shaft drive cutterbar has 1/3 less moving parts. 2. Each gear to gear set contact down in the bed works just like a gear pump of oil. They have individual drag and also pump oil into the next gear set creating even more drag and heat. The extra drag and weight of the oil is the main factor in the extra HP needed.

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Hayman

03-12-2006 11:35:51




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 Re: Disc mowers in reply to Hay DR, 03-11-2006 14:17:28  
I have a CIH/NI 9ft. disc mower with the conditioning rolls etc. In this model the CIH & NI are the same just they painted one red etc.

"HayMAXX mowers use EP-00 grease that lasts 10+ years"

Mine uses a EP 0 grease in the cutter bar also but mine has to be checked or changed about every 1000 acres which is like once a year for me.

I've had my disc mower now for 16 years and it has been a good machine. The NI has no belts or chains just a the main gear box and the cutter bar.

I have had to replace the hex shaft over the years as it wears where it runs through the gears and greats too much backlash. The newer models have more contact area to solve this problem.

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Seth_ia

03-11-2006 19:04:16




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 Re: Disc mowers in reply to Hay DR, 03-11-2006 14:17:28  
That diagram looks identical to the bar on my Case-IH 3206 disc mower. The mower was made by New Idea and the NI dealer says it has a Lely bar. I do love it after one season of use, would never go back to a haybine. By way of thinking, shaft drive are the only way to go. Not sure if I would by another used one however.



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