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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit.

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Tom Cumming

09-20-2007 11:09:23




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I have an Allis B. I just had the crank ground by .010. I've mic'd it, and it and it looks good.

When I put the rod bearings/caps on and plasti gauged it, I found that it was too tight. So I put shims in .002" at a time. At .004" there was no difference. Then I noticed that the shim was actually loose even though I had torqued the cap bolts down to 40 lbs.

After a little more examination, I found that the bearings where holding the cap up from the rod (see attached drawing, bearings in blue).

I'm not sure if I got the wrong bearings, or I'm doing something wrong.

Any ideas???

thx, tom

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chalmersbob

09-20-2007 18:57:28




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 Re: Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit. in reply to Tom Cumming, 09-20-2007 11:09:23  
per my ac manual
the bearing insert stands out above the bearing cap and rod .0015 with 4 shims in place on each side of the rod. this is to assure good contact in order to transfer heat from the bearing to the rod. So with new bearings you need 4 shims.
Bob



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Tom Cumming

09-20-2007 14:31:25




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 Re: Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit. in reply to Tom Cumming, 09-20-2007 11:09:23  
From what people have said so far, is that I likely need a lot more shims than I expected, likely more than the .004 that I tried so far.

BTW., I'm reasonably sure that I have bearings sized for a journal that's been ground .010". That's what I ordered anyway...

When I originally disassembled it, there were _no_ shims, so I assumed that when I put it back together that I likely wouldn't need shims, and if I did there wouldn't be much.

Now I get the impression that .010ish of shims may be, "normal".

I also may need to file some off the ends of the bearing... (?!) I'm a bit worried about trying that. Do I have a second opinion?

thanx, tom

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El Toro

09-21-2007 09:22:11




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 Re: Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit. in reply to Tom Cumming, 09-20-2007 14:31:25  
On all the engines that I have rebuilt when the crankshaft is ground no shims are required. You get the correct undersize bearings and just install, oil and torque the rod cap. This includes B&S and Kohler air cooled engines. When the shaft was ground undersize you ordered the correct undersize connecting rod and installed without any shims. I did have shims on engines with babbitted bearings. Hal

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stu (ON)

09-20-2007 14:54:56




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 Re: Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit. in reply to Tom Cumming, 09-20-2007 14:31:25  
Not sure which orientation of the bearing that you are talking about, but here is an old thread to look at.



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Tom Cumming

09-20-2007 15:28:01




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 Re: Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit. in reply to stu (ON), 09-20-2007 14:54:56  
The last person on that thread noted that you shouldn't need more than .001 or .002" shims. This is contrary to the previous posts here.

Hmmm



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Jack a

09-21-2007 03:52:38




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 Re: Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit. in reply to Tom Cumming, 09-20-2007 15:28:01  
That's how thick each shim is and that's what I think he is saying.



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stu (ON)

09-20-2007 16:12:40




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 Re: Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit. in reply to Tom Cumming, 09-20-2007 15:28:01  
One more bit of history from the vault, to give you confidence. I expect that there are many more examples in the archives.



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Dick L

09-20-2007 15:41:56




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 Re: Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit. in reply to Tom Cumming, 09-20-2007 15:28:01  
He was talking about the shim stock that would be used to make (A/1) shim not the total thickness of the shim stack. I personally have a roll of .002 shim stock and a roll of .005 shim stock.
When cutting shims I set and watch TV while cutting them. You can order shim stacks. I think they are .014 thick (I think) and peel off in layers of .002.



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Dick L

09-20-2007 12:49:45




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 Should Have Also Said in reply to Tom Cumming, 09-20-2007 11:09:23  
If you have mics you should put the bearings in the rod and tighten the bolts and mic the inside of the bearing diameter and check it against the crankshaft diameter. That gives you the information you need to properly shim. If you don't have mics you have to add shims until it is not tight and then check with plastigage.



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Dick L

09-20-2007 12:41:21




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 Re: Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit. in reply to Tom Cumming, 09-20-2007 11:09:23  
I always make my first plastigage check with .010 each side. I then get the reading to know if I need more or less shims. If it is still tight I add .005 and plastigage check again. It does not take less shims when you have the crank turned because the .010 under bearings are thicker than the standard.



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El Toro

09-20-2007 12:05:57




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 Re: Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit. in reply to Tom Cumming, 09-20-2007 11:09:23  
Are you sure those new insert bearings are .010" undersize? They seem to be too thick Hal



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ACEd

09-20-2007 11:54:13




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 Re: Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit. in reply to Tom Cumming, 09-20-2007 11:09:23  
Do you have correct bearings for 0.010 u/s? If so I seem to remember a comment about having to trim 0.002 off end of a bearing in lieu of shimming - but where are you putting shims? - best to get IT book or AC Service Manual.



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Jack a

09-20-2007 11:49:27




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 Re: Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit. in reply to Tom Cumming, 09-20-2007 11:09:23  
You need to get the shim stacks frrom AGCO or make them yourself. They add up to a bit more then .004". You also might want to get the rods and caps checked because they may be stretched after you torqued them with improper shims. They can be reconditioned at most any machine shop and it used to be fairly cheap to do. I had mine reconditioned without shims so I nolonger need shims at all. I also maked them so that anyone in the future will know these rods use no shims.

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Jack a

09-20-2007 12:34:04




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 Re: Trouble getting my rod bearings to fit. in reply to Jack a, 09-20-2007 11:49:27  
Should say marked not maked and no longer not nolonger.



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