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O/T Torture

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37 chief

04-20-2009 20:03:49

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I don't know about you guys, and gals, But I am getting a little tired of hearing how the US has tortured some prisioners. Now what some of our military went through during WW2 at the hands of the Japanse, and the Germans Now I would call that torture. How about the Hanoi Hilton. To make someone stand, or be deprived of sleep, or listen to loud music. What is called water boarding, may be the worst. I almost forgot making prisioners remove their clothes, and lay together. Ask John Mc Cain if he would rather be water boarded or hung by his arms behind his back. Stan

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David Snipes

04-23-2009 10:28:24

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

I torture myself by trying to make some money farming and still make it fun.

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dave2

04-22-2009 22:43:04

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

I couldn't live with myself after torturing one of these poor souls in any way or condoning it by anyone representing America.
I think they should be fed well, given a very nice notebook with a list of questions we would like to have answered, a pen to write with, a comfortable set of shackles on both legs and the arm that they don't write with, and a sterile, dull scalpel. Set a fire extenguisher just out of reach and set the room on fire. They can either answer the questions and have a nicely dressed rep of the USA, or torture themselves until they either answer the questions or go meet allah.

Dave

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dave2

04-23-2009 11:34:50

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to dave2, 04-22-2009 22:43:04

dave2 said: (quoted from post at 22:43:04 04/22/09)
I couldn't live with myself after torturing one of these poor souls in any way or condoning it by anyone representing America.
I think they should be fed well, given a very nice notebook with a list of questions we would like to have answered, a pen to write with, a comfortable set of shackles on both legs and the arm that they don't write with, and a sterile, dull scalpel. Set a fire extenguisher just out of reach and set the room on fire. They can either answer the questions and have a nicely dressed rep of the USA, or torture themselves until they either answer the questions or go meet allah.

Dave

Meant to say a nicely dressed rep would put out the fire for them if they answered the ????? ?'s..

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MarkB_MI

04-22-2009 03:12:15

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

Well, after reading all the articulate and insightful posts, you guys have brought me around: Torture is the way to go.

Of course, y'all do realize that once our government gets used to using torture on foreigners, it will want to do the same with its citizens. Yes, IRS audits are going to get REAL interesting:

IRS: Mr. Tractorguy, you stated on your return that you've only made 12,000 a year for the past three years.

You: That's right. I'm self-employed and I don't make much. And almost everything I make goes to support my mom. Mother is VERY ill, you know.

IRS: Hmpf. WE will be the judge of THAT. Strap 'im down, boys!

You: What? You can't do this! I have RIGHTS! I..glug glug glug...

(a few seconds later)
You: You #&*@s! I'll have your #%&! I'll call my congressman! I'll..glug glug glug...

(a minute later)
You: Please! Please stop! OK, maybe I did understate my income. But just a little bit! I'll file an amended return! I promise! I...glug glug glug...

(two minutes later)
You: For the love of god! Please stop! I'll tell you anything! How much do you want? I'll give anything you want! I just remembered: Mom's been cheating or her taxes for years! I'll give you everything I know about it! Anything! Please...

IRS: I'm pleased that we have come to an understanding. In the Internal Revenue Service, we like to say "a compliant taxpayer is a happy taxpayer."

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Scott in SF

04-21-2009 20:01:48

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

I think it is time, again, to start burning witches at the stake, like they did in Salem Mass. Witches are everywhere, and they are going to destroy America if we don't eliminate them.

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jack harmon

04-21-2009 13:05:24

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

I don't hold with torture either,I say it wastes too much manpower!just follow the three shot rule ,your walking down the street in say Iraq and a shot comes from a certain house.LEVEL THE HOUSE! another shot comes from another house,LEVEL THE WHOLE BLOCK! one more shot,PULL OUT AND LEVEL THE WHOLE BAKED MUD TOWN,,,move to next town, repeat the above!Just for my part i figure when you fight a war you don't worry about hurting peoples feelings.

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Mark

04-21-2009 12:34:03

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

You think if we put them up in the Paris Hilton and supplied them a masseuse, caviar, steam baths and fresh turbans.....that they would like us better? Maybe not want to chop the heads off of Jewish reporters, plant bombs on the roads for our boys to drive over or wouldn"t fly planes into our buildings and murder thousands of innocent men, women, and children?

You pacifists make me want to puke!

The bottom line is: they have information we want. They can offer it up freely, or we can extract it by whatever means necessary to get the job done. These people have no memory of Bataan or the North Vietnamese, or any other nation we have warred with in the past. And even if they did, they couldn"t care less.

Our military can"t hunker down and play Mr. Nice Guy when dealing with these terrorists...just because our personnel have suffered as POW"s in the past. This is war. It is ugly. They started it, we"ll finish it. Suck it up and move on...or get out.

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usetabesteve

04-21-2009 12:35:04

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to pat sublett, 04-21-2009 10:23:17

There you go. We will only waterboard the next set 181 times instead of 183. It's progress, but such things ought to be discussed away from the press.

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big fred

04-21-2009 11:26:27

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to pat sublett, 04-21-2009 10:23:17

Can't do that, he's paid all his taxes.

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big fred

04-21-2009 08:50:17

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

There is a legal definition of torture in the US Code. I don't believe waterboarding fits that definition. I do understand those who make an argument that it does fit that legal definition, but I don't agree with them. Unfortunately, most discussions of waterboarding are by those who have never read that legal definition, and who don't care what the law says.

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usetabesteve

04-21-2009 10:08:27

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to big fred, 04-21-2009 08:50:17

It's in a treaty, Fred.

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big fred

04-21-2009 11:25:46

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to usetabesteve, 04-21-2009 10:08:27

what treaty? You have a treaty that specifically defines torture in a manner that is unambiguous? And does this same treaty affect all parties to the incidents in question?

Remember, the Geneva conventions don't contain rights that extend to combatants that are not in uniform, or who are wearing uniforms of forces other than the ones they are representing. They cover civilians, but only inasmuch as the civilians don't become combatants.

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usetabesteve

04-21-2009 12:33:09

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to big fred, 04-21-2009 11:25:46

I'm not getting into that argument.

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noncompos

04-21-2009 08:27:42

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

Well, lets see here...
If a couple suits came to your place, said the only reason your place was still standing and your family alive was because they'd stopped some bad guys, and there were more bad guys coming that they hadn't stopped yet, but they couldn't say any more, couldn't publicly prosecute the bad guys because it'd prevent them stopping the rest of the bad guys, and they wanted support for protecting you, you'd think "protection racket!!"
If you looked uncertain they'd say "...your place is still standing, you haven't been attacked; that's proof we've been protecting you..." Just think about it a little.

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pat sublett

04-21-2009 11:44:07

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to noncompos, 04-21-2009 08:27:42

I think you will get an answer to your question before long.

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Mike M

04-21-2009 08:11:28

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

Maybe we should of done what the other side did ?

Line them up and cut their heads off !

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buickanddeere

04-21-2009 07:00:46

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

Making prisoners watch about 9/10 of the television shows out there could be considered torture.

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northener

04-21-2009 06:49:54

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

Its the same old problem, the Christians dont want torture and play by the rules, the bad guys torture and have no rules.In the end the Christians will lose to the bad guys.

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Dave 2N

04-21-2009 09:29:17

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to northener, 04-21-2009 06:49:54

Bingo!!!

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hoof print

04-21-2009 08:32:17

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to northener, 04-21-2009 06:49:54

not at all northern, the battle is already won...we just have to wait for it to play out

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usetabesteve

04-21-2009 12:36:39

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to Kentb of SWMO, 04-21-2009 06:45:10

We've just exchanged one set of empty suits for another. My life isn't much affected.

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730 virgil

04-21-2009 19:53:41

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to JackE, 04-21-2009 07:42:54

yea and when the dems run out of money they will just print more. when these bozos get done toilet paper will be worth more than the dollar.

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rrlund

04-21-2009 06:44:44

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

Someday history will know us as that "nice gentle country that doesn't exist anymore".

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Bill(Wis)

04-21-2009 06:43:29

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

"Waterboarding" was a standard hazing tehnique at VMI for many years. George C Marshall endured it as did many, many others. I'm not aware of any drownings ever caused by it by us.

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RichardFromVMI

04-22-2009 19:26:37

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to Bill(Wis), 04-21-2009 06:43:29

I graduated from VMI in the 80s, and I never heard of waterboarding (by any name) while I was there. It was never even mentioned as having happened in "the old corps".

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1936

04-21-2009 04:57:36

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

The only difference between slick Dick and the new boy is the first dodged the military and this one was not in the military. Just ask McCain about broken bones. Tribue yesterday stated some are thinking of going after the ones that advised Geo for breaking some sort of law.
Lets dig up Pattons army the third army which I wore the thirds patch at one time in modern times. Just read the rest of the story on the rag heads took out by the Seals. The boy never give the green light to do, the CO in Charge at the time gave the green light. Reason for the three day delay for the job to be done. The boy stepped up to mike and took the credit for the action he would not order. The boys remarks about the USA relgion while in Turkey got the new CEO of Moody Bible up in arms which made the Tribune.
Tribune talked about his first hundred days with pic of him and the easter egg roll on the white house lawn.

The current idea by him is throw enought money at it and the problem will resolve it self. Just where are the miilion with out jobs going with the hand out bucks end???

Tribune yesterday stated that ILLINOIS got the biggest stimulis bucks for roads and bridges. Good for the drivers but, not long term job which is needed to dig out of this depression yes depression. Only difference I see per my elders is this one money is being printed. Agree with chief and war is hell recalling the Baton(sp) march as one example of hundreds.

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tlak

04-21-2009 05:24:04

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 1936, 04-21-2009 04:57:36

"The boy never give the green light to do, the CO in Charge at the time gave the green light. Reason for the three day delay for the job to be done."
You don't know any of this, you're just making it up. How bout sticking to facts.
As far as torture, do what you have to do. Enough heads were cut off to justify anything in my eyes.

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Traditional Farmer

04-21-2009 04:03:56

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

Torture? What they're doing is a joke.College Frats do worse all the time.I've had worse things happen to me on a job.Either we get real with these thugs or loose by being a bunch of Pansies.

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JDknut

04-21-2009 03:56:51

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

I'm sorry but I can't drum up a lot of sympathy for sleep-deprived terrorists who would like nothing better than to blow up as many of our women and babies as they can. Too bad if they lose some beauty sleep or get a bath. I'm getting tired of the media obsessing over it. If a little dunking can stop a bombing, oh well..

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MarkB_MI

04-21-2009 03:17:44

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

How can we claim any moral high ground if we do the same things we criticize others of doing? I can't say I've ever been waterboarded, but I'm sure after one or two dunkings I would say whatever I thought the other guy wanted to hear.

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JackE

04-21-2009 05:22:03

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to MarkB_MI, 04-21-2009 03:17:44

Moral High Ground. Until we start sawing people's heads off with a dull knife, I'm not going to worry too much about losing the highly talked about "MoralHighGround". Bullsh!t, listen to the tape of, and I'm not even talking about watching the video, of that guy from PA. as those animals sawed his head off, He screamed for over half a minute. Torture, hell, I think I went through worse in the Navy, going through Shellback and Bluenose initiations. They poured water over a terrorist face, and people act like they've got the vapors. What the he!! happened to this country. And this so called torture works, Former VP Cheney wants the Gov to release other documents showing the good information they got through the "Torture". But, we probably won't be seeing any of that. That would show one thing the previous administration did right. Jack

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Dave 2N

04-21-2009 04:44:45

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to MarkB_MI, 04-21-2009 03:17:44

Ask the victims of 9/11 about the importance of the "moral high ground."

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gun guru

04-21-2009 02:14:42

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

I am with HuntingGreen, as long as it produces information then go for it.

I would rather just shoot the prisoners in Gitmo and sink pirate ships and crank the war on Terror up 3 notches and get it over with.

The US government is run by panzies...Get it over with already.

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Ron Anderson

04-20-2009 22:34:30

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

After 911 and faced with possible more events like those I have no sympathy at all. I would say the fact that we have had no more events like 911 speaks for itself.

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ted regentin

04-20-2009 22:16:08

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

Are you guys for real? Do you actually buy into the propaganda line that torturing people produces any useful information? There have been plenty of studies that show that the information from people being tortured is totally unreliable. Have you read what happens when a person is waterboarded? Do you know that people have died while being tortured? Torture is wrong, period! It is truly a shameful thing that our government has done such things. It is even more shameful that many of the citizens of the US, particularly those who claim to be Christian are condoning such terrible acts. Two wrongs never make a right.

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big fred

04-21-2009 08:54:27

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to ted regentin, 04-20-2009 22:16:08

Okay, using your argument, if torture doesn't yield useful intelligence information, can we then agree that any method that does yield useful intelligence is not torture?

BTW, your argument doesn't hold water. If those methods (which I do not agree meet the legal definition of torture) did not yield useful information, the intelligence agencies would not use them.

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MN JOE

04-21-2009 04:49:35

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to ted regentin, 04-20-2009 22:16:08

IF you don't think torture don't work,,, then maybe some one should torture you -- and see if your willing to talk,,, I bet you'd have a different tune...

Yur the Nut who needs a lesson... if your a so called Christian,, what do you call a Fire of Hell for eternity, do you think that's going to be a picnic for unrepented sin .. you better think about that for a while.

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Traditional Farmer

04-21-2009 04:06:13

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to ted regentin, 04-20-2009 22:16:08

Torture doesn't work?Bull! 30 minutes out in my shop and I'll have these thugs rolling over on their Mamas and eating Pork Chops.

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dave2

04-21-2009 04:18:01

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to Traditional Farmer, 04-21-2009 04:06:13

Traditional Farmer said: (quoted from post at 04:06:13 04/21/09) Torture doesn't work?Bull! 30 minutes out in my shop and I'll have these thugs rolling over on their Mamas and eating Pork Chops.

YOU GOT MY VOTE!!!!! WHEN YA RUNNIN'????? ?????

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super99

04-21-2009 03:26:58

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to ted regentin, 04-20-2009 22:16:08

You are right! We should have just put a bullet between the eyes. Quick and painless.

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MN JOE

04-21-2009 04:51:50

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to super99, 04-21-2009 03:26:58

HOW do you know it's Painless ???? did you ever have it done to yourself >>>>>???

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billyj

04-21-2009 09:07:29

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to MN JOE, 04-21-2009 04:51:50

How do you know its NOT painless?

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MN JOE

04-21-2009 09:55:08

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to billyj, 04-21-2009 09:07:29

Cause when it's done,,, the victim gives out a GROAN ..... .

NOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO TEST IT OUT on yourself ????? ? LOL

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billyj

04-21-2009 13:30:38

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to MN JOE, 04-21-2009 09:55:08

And how do you know they give out a groan. Where you there personally when someone put a gun to there head and took there life?

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Pete76zNY

04-21-2009 02:44:45

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to ted regentin, 04-20-2009 22:16:08

Are you for real? ...or just someone trying to pee off the people who DO have enough braincells to do more than just the basic vital functions?

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garytomaszewski

04-20-2009 20:47:41

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

Hey, lets give bho some time I'm sure there are alot more things he will apologise for, go to the post about the movie where the dopers run the world.

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huntingreen2day

04-20-2009 20:19:17

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to 37 chief, 04-20-2009 20:03:49

I don't give a $$it what they do to them if they save innocent lives in the long run.

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railhead

04-20-2009 21:30:21

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to huntingreen2day, 04-20-2009 20:19:17

no kidding, I am talking about big wire cutters taking off digits, seems fine to me if they can save some AMERICAN lives. bho is a DISGRACE.

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David - OR

04-21-2009 04:55:18

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to railhead, 04-20-2009 21:30:21

"It's not about who they (detainees) are". It's about who we are. Americans ... hold ourselves to a higher standard".

-- John McCain, debating torture on the Senate floor

Is McCain a "DISGRACE" too?

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railhead

04-21-2009 05:48:01

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to David - OR, 04-21-2009 04:55:18

No, he is not. A man that had a chance to leave the hanoi hilton but chose to stay with his brothers, endured 4 more years of torture and came home with a desire to further serve his country and has done so is not a disgrace. some of his views...like this one and his soft immigration stance, DRIVES ME MAD.

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usetabesteve

04-21-2009 06:52:37

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to railhead, 04-21-2009 05:48:01

John McCain detests torture. You should respect that. You should wonder about it instead of letting it drive you mad. He was an officer and chose to stay with his men. That took courage. It's leadership, and it's hard but simple.

We ought to be listening to someone who knows a lot more than any of us will ever know about torture. A bunch of blowhards that can't figure out which enemy did what to us ought to be ashamed.

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BSpauld

04-21-2009 09:54:52

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to usetabesteve, 04-21-2009 06:52:37

I agree with you on this,John McCain knows what its like and if he dont want ,I dont either,for one thing some of those that were tortured were just suppected of doing wrong,Its no different then them coming to your house because one of your neighbors said,"I THINK hes a terrorist"But I dont understand how a tractor posting turned political,To a real farmer theres not a lot of difference between a Neocon or a Lib out in the field,and some of you need to get rid of the hate

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john d

04-21-2009 11:58:53

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to BSpauld, 04-21-2009 09:54:52

Without the hate, some folks just have nothing to look forward to tomorrow....

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usetabesteve

04-21-2009 10:07:39

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Re: O/T Torture in reply to BSpauld, 04-21-2009 09:54:52

What matters is if he comes to help you pull your car out of the ditch in the middle of January. I have one that I can't stand to talk with about very much of anything but he's a good guy otherwise. We just don't talk much.

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