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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Lip service about fuel economy (vent)

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Circus

05-24-2008 05:38:19




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Lip service about fuel economy. Saving fuel isn't difficult but nobody wants you too. I'm single and have four different vehicle for four different tasks. The insurance and licensing is killing me. Insurance companies love me because they get four times the money with no more risk and Wisconsin get four times the money with less road wear. The single most effective method of saving fuel will never happen because so many are making so much money.

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buickanddeere

05-25-2008 19:46:56




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to Circus, 05-24-2008 05:38:19  
Sorry tuque not toque. My french is very limited.
>Link
I'm more of a fan of those brew's made to the old bavarian standards with only and only water, grain, yeast and hopps. Most breweries tend to push the process and add stuff I'd rather not touch let alone drink.



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Steven f/AZ

05-25-2008 15:17:30




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to Circus, 05-24-2008 05:38:19  
As long as we're on it, thanks to ALL who have served our fine country.

I know some people don't like what the military does, but we all need to realize that the soldiers themselves are just doing their job and following orders. Whether or not you agree with where we are fighting or what we are fighting for, the troops need our support!



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s.crum

05-24-2008 20:50:10




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 Re: Lip service about fuel economy (vent) in reply to Circus, 05-24-2008 05:38:19  
I have to laugh about all the hubbub on fuel efficent vehicles. My boss was chiding me just the other day about my old 89' F-150 flatbed saying I should look at a new fuel efficent truck. The my wife starts in on me about the same thing. Being that I always put the calculator thru it's paces in considering something like this, I did. Tonight wife and I drove up to the cemetary with the flower pots for my Father's and Mom and Dad's graves then stopped for ice cream, Then we stopped in at the local Ford dealer's and looked at a few new trucks. VERY nice! But for me a truck is a tool and I saw the EPA sticker that stated 20 MPG highway. well my old F-150 gets 14 MPG highway. The big numbers on the windshield stated the price at $28,500. Hmmm. I paid $1,800 for mine 5 years ago. Now I'm $26,700 ahead of the game. That savings would buy 6725.44 gallons of gas at today's rate of $3.97 a gallon. I drive approx 6,000 miles a year to get back and forth to work everyday and some short running around. So 6725.44 gallons X 14 MPG would take me 94,156.16 miles. 94,156.16 miles divided by 6,000 miles equals 15.69 years of driving. Now if I were to buy a new 'fuel efficent' truck and gain 6 MPG that 'savings' would take me to 22.42 years of driving. So the old F-150 effectively burns 428.57 gallons at $3.97 The new truck would theoretically burn only 300 gallons at $3.97 a gallon At a net savings of 128.57 gallons at $3.97 That would save me $510.42 per year. At ten years no doubt the new truck wouldn't be worth any more than the old one, and I'd be pop riviting patches on it to get it thru inspection.However let's not confuse things. Everything considered from the cost of the new truck, sales tax, Interest, collision insurance, depreciation, washing and waxing and just general fussing to keep it nice for a few years. I'm staying with the old F-150 until it's scrap iron. I just don't make un-needed trips, don't romp on it and keep the tire pressures where they should be. The 'efficency savings' hardly justify considering this.

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DiyDave

05-25-2008 17:15:01




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to IndianaRed, 05-24-2008 15:48:21  
Indiana Red don't let people like the trucker get to you, he's only bitin you in the A**, cause he's 100 % behind you! Thanks for some good points on your side of the argument, and for not sinking to the level of sir trucker! Also thank you for your service to this country, both of you!



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IndianaRed

05-24-2008 17:14:41




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to Ducknose Bob, 05-24-2008 17:06:27  
Thank you sir. I'm driving right now, but will be responding to him assoon as I get home. Check back, you'll like it.



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dddl

05-24-2008 16:37:47




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to IndianaRed, 05-24-2008 15:48:21  
So Indiana Red you must work for a drilling company. Answer me this, if we start exploring for oil how long befor the "exploration turns into actual gasoline? I think what we need is for the car companies to get off their hind ends ands gas us a worthwhile fuel economy car! Not a rolling casket that gets 30 miles a gallon but a midsize that does 40-50 without being electric. The other night on TV a ford exec. say they have a 6 cylinder car that will revolutinize the auto industry, but they aren't going to release it until 2010!! Whats wrong with now or aren't they loosing enough money yet? i don't understand with them earning all their billions why the don't put their refineries that they "can't afford to repair" back on line.

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rexhellwig

05-25-2008 15:42:18




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to dddl, 05-24-2008 16:37:47  
Good heavens, man!
Turn off your TV and do your own reasoning. You think the politicians who take green money to make everything illegal are going to say "maybe that wasn't a good idea" ?
Nope. They are going to blame everyone except the guy in the mirror.

Kind of like the fox blaming the farmer for the shortage in the henhouse.



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IndianaRed

05-25-2008 16:56:54




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to davpal, 05-25-2008 16:50:37  
Nor did I say that I wanted to be in charge of anything. What are you so angry about? Can't handle the truth?



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trucker40

05-25-2008 10:51:50




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to IndianaRed, 05-25-2008 09:54:53  
The Vietnam War was because of Robert McNamara and the military/industrial complex.I lived then,I know how it affected things.Communism was the propaganda,but the real reason was oil.Look it up yourself,lots of drilling of oil wells over in Vietnam now that its communist.Your statements have a kernal of truth,our way is better than communism,but this country is being dragged into communism,just a different approach is being used.Before I waste 30 minutes trying to set you straight,I will see what you say. I suppose you think that if the oil companies drill Anwar things will get better?I told you the same crooks,oil,corporations,communists,some Senators name of Rockefeller,other counties.and just a bunch of evil,own both sides of the argument.Rich folks that live on the coast hire crooks to stir things up about"environmental"issues,the same people have lots of stock in oil companies,might even own oil companies,they also own the TV station,radio station,newspapers,and you name it,conglomo owns it all,and your argument of its the left.and the military/industrial complex is doing things in your best interest,when they want your money,your kids to fight their war,and all selling you out more every day.Your sucking up,to people with the sir crap is disgusting,but it says who you are,stupid.
Im not miserable,or even anywhere close to it.I think our kids growing up need a future,and this constant thievery of everything people fought and died for being trampled,and abused,and wasted,so a few greedy hogs can be rich off of the backs of the poor is not going to get it anymore than it ever did.It is evil,and its turning everybody evil,next you will see the murder rate skyrocketing,more crime,people starving,and less freedom because your military/industrial complex is like you,wrong.Happy Memorial Day!

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IndianaRed

05-25-2008 13:33:53




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to trucker40, 05-25-2008 10:51:50  
I'm sick of those tired old arguments. Let me give you one from my perspective.

My parents divorced when I was 8. We moved from our home in Kansas to Indianapolis. My mother took over $9,000 in debt, (in 1972 dollars) and received no help from my father. We had a VW bug and few belongings. We moved into a trailer that my great Grandfather had just died in.

My mother found a less than stellar job and started back to school 2-3 nights a week. Her sister came and stayed with us for a while to help out.

Mom got her degree, eventually a Masters, and found a better job at a bank. She paid off all the debt my father had acquired.

She ended up sitting on the board of directors and is now a millionaire. She retired from the bank and now works 3 days a week for the local PBS television station, and works two days a week as a teacher's assistant for 1st graders, because she wants to.

Who held her back? Was some rich person behind her success? The answer is no, and no one held her back nor helped her, she did it all on her own. And there are many others like her.

She didn't take anything from anyone to get where she is. How is that possible in the world you described? Hard work and dedication still work and pay off in the long run. Your misunderstanding is that the economy is a zero sum game. That for someone to get ahead someone else must lose. That's wrong. My mother is irrefutable proof of that.

You are a conspiracy theorist and a fool and I won't listen to your crap anymore. Go spew your filth somewhere else, no one wants to here it.

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trucker40

05-25-2008 10:22:19




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to IndianaRed, 05-25-2008 09:54:53  
I thought you were smarter than that.Dont call me sir I work for a living.I told you the truth and you come at me with more talk radio stupidity and just plain idiot inspired answer?????I see why these hogs are able to get away with it,Or maybe your are one of the people that get a paycheck for spreading trash.



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IndianaRed

05-25-2008 13:40:32




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to trucker40, 05-25-2008 10:22:19  
We're not in the military, "sir" is just being polite.

Think what you want. You are obviously angry at the world, and whatever the reason for that, I don't care. Go on being negative, tell you're grandchildren there is no hope. That no matter what they do they will never get ahead.

Or work harder, help them through college, and see them do better than you and take pleasure in that.

I did not go to college. I joined the Navy and served my country, proudly.

I drive for a living, just like you. But unlike you I don't feel anyone's boot heel on my back. No one is keeping me down. You have an inferiority complex, go get some help.

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trucker40

05-25-2008 17:50:46




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to IndianaRed, 05-25-2008 13:40:32  
Get on You Tube and watch the Secret Rulers of the World,its 29, 10 minute episodes,but its good,and lots of people have ideas like that,and while some of it is a little off,a lot of it is right on the money.I dont care if you look or not,and dont even care what you think about it.I told you,what you do after that is up to you.I think I have seen your type of answer before,but dont recall that the name is the same.Im a mechanic,older than you,grouchy,and people with an attitude like you have,get me riled up.You are still wrong and the more you try and discredit me,the dumber you get.The first thing you can do is get off that better than everybody else deal because you were poor now your moms a millionaire.I dont care,that stuff is only important to you and your family,no matter what some talk radio show has you believing.That thinking right there is a waste of time,there are billions of people starving to death,and your immediate concern is that we drill in Anwar.Its because of speculators on the stocks that is a fact,causing oil to go out of sight,causing people to starve because they are buying stocks on paper that dont exist and causing a "shortage"that doesnt exist.I bet lots of your"heros"if they are "conservatives"are the reason its happening.Your neocon(selfnamed)conservatives are neither conservative,nor do they represent this country.Thats why you need to watch Secret Rulers of the World.Then you need to look at grainland.coop(has to have the period between grainland and coop)then on the left side scroll down to newsletters,click,read Micheal W.Masters Testifies Before Congress,its real good,has graphs,very well written explanation of whats going on.Dont post more stuff to make me mad,Im done with you.Im not a "conspiracy nut",far from it.

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IndianaRed

05-25-2008 18:07:45




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to trucker40, 05-25-2008 17:50:46  
I'm tired of talking to you. The only reason I brought up my Mom was to discredit your statement that rich evil people run the world and the rest of us don't have a chance. She is the daughter of a small Kansas farmer. Grew up in very humble conditions, then had major setbacks, and still came out on top. And you try to belittle her accomplishments and degrade her because she's done well and succeeded in life, with no help from anyone. What does that say about you?

I don't think I'm better than anyone. You're rantings are incoherent and rediculous. I don't believe in conspiracies as you do, so no, I won't be watching your "secret rulers" trash.

"An attitiude like mine" you said. You mean because I love this country and believe in traditional values? Or because I don't believe that the Tri-lateral commission is running everything?

Then you bring "Millions of people starving to death" into the conversation, something competely unrelated to anything we've been discussing. Your arguments are all over the place and make no sense. Just stop.

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Steven f/AZ

05-25-2008 14:09:53




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to IndianaRed, 05-25-2008 13:40:32  

IndianaRed said: (quoted from post at 13:40:32 05/25/08)I joined the Navy and served my country, proudly.


Thank you sir for your service to our country! I appreciate the freedom!



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IndianaRed

05-25-2008 14:12:33




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to Steven f/AZ, 05-25-2008 14:09:53  
Was my pleasure, just wished I'd of stayed in. Could've retired 3 years ago.
Safe and Happy Memorial Day to you and yours.



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buickanddeere

05-25-2008 18:38:38




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to IndianaRed, 05-25-2008 14:12:33  
IndianaRed

People like trucker 40 will never understand they are poor because of what they have them selves done and haven"t done. It seems everybody else is to blame for their woes. Your Mother is a fine example of what is possible in North America. I wonder how trucker40 figures your Mom must be another rich person. "Who has to have gotten that way by being an immoral thief, like every other rich person". Trucker40 hasn"t figured out why somebody can work hard their entire life and have zero to show for it. #1 you can dig and sift as long and as hard as you want but you will never find gold in a horse stable. #2 when you make some money, even a little. You have to invest it wisely. Alas, most of the time you can"t fix stinking thinking because it"s easier for people like trucker40 to complain, look for sympathy and blame others. Than to take responsibility, work, think and change themselves.

b&d

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IndianaRed

05-25-2008 18:46:37




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to buickanddeere, 05-25-2008 18:38:38  
Thanks B&D,

As you can imagine, when it comes to Mom it's hard not to take offense at statements like that.

I guess if you follow his logic anyone that makes some money is evil. Pitiful. I always thought that was the American, (or North American) dream.

I take it you are up north of the border?

And as the Bartles and James fellas used to say, Thanks for your support.

Bri



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buickanddeere

05-25-2008 19:27:42




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to IndianaRed, 05-25-2008 18:46:37  
Up here shivering in the land of Ice & Snow. Wearing my toque, eating back bacon and drinking Molson Canadian while punctuating statements with "eh". On the east coast of Lake Huron. Pump diesel $1.39 a liter and 87 gasoline $1.27/liter. Premium is 12 cents a liter extra. 3.78liters in a US gallon.



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IndianaRed

05-25-2008 19:36:55




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 Re: Consevation? How about Drilling? in reply to buickanddeere, 05-25-2008 19:27:42  
What's a toque?

Yep, fuel is just brutal. I saw diesel in southern Indiana yesterday ay $4.95. Glad I'm in a gasser now.

Sitting here watching the 500, (Don't tell me who won!). A Molson sounds good about now.



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Davis SC

05-24-2008 13:22:57




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 Re: Lip service about fuel economy (vent) in reply to Circus, 05-24-2008 05:38:19  
I see what you mean.. I had thought about buying a small car, but by the time I pay all the associated costs, I will be spending a lot more than it cost to drive either of my pickups. You are right that a single driver can only drive one vehicle at a time. Tax, tags, insurance, etc on a car is going to cost me a minimun of $1,000/yr, in addition to the cost of the car. I have just started driving a lot less, mainly by consolidating trips.

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buickanddeere

05-24-2008 12:15:45




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 Re: Lip service about fuel economy (vent) in reply to Circus, 05-24-2008 05:38:19  
99% of people with a pickup just need a semi economical vehicle instead. And trailer for hauling stuff that would normally go into a pickup.



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Sid

05-24-2008 16:30:37




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 Re: Lip service about fuel economy (vent) in reply to buickanddeere, 05-24-2008 12:15:45  
"99% of people with a pickup just need a semi economical vehicle instead. And trailer for hauling stuff that would normally go into a pickup." I for one pickup owner am getting sick and tired of people telling me what I need.



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buickanddeere

05-24-2008 20:00:43




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 must be in the constitution to be able to own a pickup? in reply to Sid, 05-24-2008 16:30:37  
Buy what you want but don"t come moaning and crying how much it costs a week to drive the pickup.



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Steven f/AZ

05-24-2008 13:26:49




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 Re: Lip service about fuel economy (vent) in reply to buickanddeere, 05-24-2008 12:15:45  

buickanddeere said: (quoted from post at 12:15:45 05/24/08) 99% of people with a pickup just need a semi economical vehicle instead. And trailer for hauling stuff that would normally go into a pickup.


I bought the van last year and it will haul the same size (not weight!) as a pickup box with the seats out. We used it to move 99% of our belongings from the apartment to the new house and averaged 23 mpg doing it. Added a hitch this year to pull a trailer, too. Also, when not being used to haul materials, seven people fit more comfortably than in an SUV.

third party image

That's five 4x8 sheets of plywood, ten 10' 2x4s and eight 8' 2x4s.

I tried out a more comfortable captain's chair once, too:

third party image

As much as people don't like the image of a minivan, I've found it quite comfortable, useful, and economical for its purpose.

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M Moline Fan

05-24-2008 14:11:49




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 Re: Lip service about fuel economy (vent) in reply to Steven f/AZ, 05-24-2008 13:26:49  
I agree with the van idea- unless you're a farmer or need a pickup for your job. When I first started out I bought a new 3/4 ton pickup. Then a 1 ton. The heaviest I ever hauled was firewood. Then I got the bright idea to get a trailer. Found out it was easier to load and lower, making it safer to load the atv or garden tractor. Got rid of the pickup and haven't missed it.



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Steven f/AZ

05-24-2008 16:47:50




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 Re: Lip service about fuel economy (vent) in reply to M Moline Fan, 05-24-2008 14:11:49  
Yes, there are times when a pickup is truly needed. I grew up on the farm and still go back every chance I get, there are times when a car just won't make it down the gravel road due to snow, mud, etc. There are parts that won't fit in the car, implements that need to be pulled, etc.

If a car is available and will work for the task at hand, it should be used. The last time I was home I went to Runnings and there were four diesel one-ton dually pickups idling in the parking lot (it was 45 degrees that day). They had made a trip to town for some parts, etc. and of course they were at the checkout complaining about fuel prices. <b>SHUT THE TRUCK OFF IF YOU AREN'T DRIVING IT!</b>

Sorry, but there's too many people intent on leaving a vehicle idle for heat or AC and way too many jackrabbit starts at the lights. If you're going to drive like you stole it, don't complain about fuel costs.

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jdemaris

05-24-2008 10:00:31




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 Re: Lip service about fuel economy (vent) in reply to Circus, 05-24-2008 05:38:19  
I don't know how expensive it is by you - but I have six vehicles on the road here in central New York. Two drivers - my wife and me. Insurance for each is $280 per year. New York requires annual motor-vehicle inspection for each - and that costs $22 for a gas vehicles or $12 for diesel. Also got the registration costs.

I drive all older stuff - and most get better fuel mileage than new cars/trucks. 91 Volks diesel Jetta gets 45-50 MPG. 81 Chevy Chevette diesel gets 42-46 MPG. 85 Isuzu diesel 4WD truck gets 28-35 MPG. 92 Dodge W250 diesel gets 18-22 MPG. 98 Dodge Caravan AWD gets 19-24 MPG. 95 Geo 4WD Tracker gets 28-33 MPG.

Haven't heard your details yet in regard to "saving fuel isn't difficult."

As far as I can tell - it certainly is difficult unless you walk to work and don't care about going anywhere else.

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Sean Feeney 2

05-24-2008 08:18:59




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 Re: Lip service about fuel economy (vent) in reply to Circus, 05-24-2008 05:38:19  
Thats why Howard Johnson made 27 different flavors.
Maybe a couple of hundred years ago a man was lucky enough or well off enough, to have more than one horse? I have more than one gun, I have 3 dogs. the wife or the law hasn't limited us yet! you have the freedom for as many cars you want or can afford, I read somewhere Jay Leno can drive a different car everyday for a year



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James22

05-24-2008 07:43:36




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 Re: Lip service about fuel economy (vent) in reply to Circus, 05-24-2008 05:38:19  
What is the method to save fuel, a vehicle that performs all four tasks? If you drive it four times as much as each of the four vehicles you already own, I don't see any fuel savings. I would guess you have a truck for hauling, daily driver for work, recreational vehicle for sporting or mudding, and a motorcycle or sports car. Perhaps you really have only three vehicles and the fourth is a boat. Regardless, if the analysis is reasonably accurate then you burn fuel for recreational purposes. Bottom line is if you can afford the luxury/convenience of four vehicles then you can afford the insurance/licensing.

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TxFarmallFan

05-24-2008 06:06:10




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 Re: Lip service about fuel economy (vent) in reply to Circus, 05-24-2008 05:38:19  
If they cost you so much, why not trim down your fleet?



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