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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Fuel rationing?

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Animal

05-04-2008 17:37:57




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I was not born when they had gas rationing in war times, I know nothing about it, would it work today? I would like to hear from the folks that went through those days and hear your opinions. Thanks Animal...




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Mike (WA)

05-05-2008 08:45:36




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to Animal, 05-04-2008 17:37:57  
One problem with rationing today is that peoples' commutes to work vary so much. Sure, people should live closer to their jobs, but they are where they are, as a result of decisions made under different circumstances, and they can't magically change their situations. Also, as mentioned below, people worked together for the war effort in those days- coupons got redistributed voluntarily on basis of need. Also, everyone knew their neighbors, and could monitor shenanigans. Not so today- every man for himself, and I gotta get mine and to he!! with you.

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ericlb

05-05-2008 03:52:26




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to Animal, 05-04-2008 17:37:57  
it wouldnt work today, as mentioned below oil companies would simply ship the fuel to other countries, but the main deference here is people, in the dark days of wwll people were of a 1 for all and all for one mind set, in other words folks did all they could on the home front to help the gi's win the war, todays genx'rs and suv wielding soccer moms are all about 'me and mine first' and the heck with anybody else

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Matt from CT

05-05-2008 06:36:12




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to ericlb, 05-05-2008 03:52:26  
>are all about 'me and mine first'

I was at the funeral for a 90 year old neighbor on Friday, and pretty much had the same thought looking up at the water stains in church ceiling and thinking how much that old building had seen.

Certainly WWII generation was not perfect -- there were some who were profitering; and some who worked the ration system not really for profit but did do things others had given up (one of my college professors was a retired state Commissioner of Agriculture, and told of how as a teen they'd use their farm gas coupons to go to the beach fifty miles away).

But there was more of a roll up our sleeves and get it done attitude.

Today you try stuff, it seems you run into more opposition then support. Some good stuff that ends up going too far like some of the zoning and safety rules; Lawyers and "non-profit activists" who make a career out of harassing people (take your pic -- schools, special ed, nuclear power, wind power, cell phone towers, etc, etc...).

At least the market, with many individuals making choices, is less impacted by these nimrods of negativism. A single "plan" is far easier for them to attack and tear down, and we accomplish nothing.

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gun guru

05-05-2008 02:36:41




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to Animal, 05-04-2008 17:37:57  
The reasons fuel is high is because of other nations needed gas/diesel for their cars. I read the annual report by GM and FORD. GM is selling a lot of cars in India and China, putting strain on the demand for fuel. (which makes our price go up, also the weak dollar, High crude prices etc.)



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Mark - IN.

05-04-2008 19:50:07




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to Animal, 05-04-2008 17:37:57  
Rationing here will buy us nothing. Fuel is taking top $$$ because of supply and demand for sure, but if the demand stops here through rationing, the demand isn't going to stop elsewhere. Right, wrong, or indifferent, its said that the single reason that diesel is so high, is the demand by China alone. So...if we cut back here, through rationing, if its true what's being said about China's demand, more of it will just be shipped to China instead of here, and also raise the prices here even more because the lack of availability...even less supply for domestic demand. Rationing would get us what? Not saying that it couldn't happen, but the day that it does, someone(s) are going to have to do some real fancy explaining as to why it would happen, based upon present reasoning...no one's cutting us off or threatening another embargo, they certainly are selling to the highest bidders though.

No politics involved with my answer.

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36 coupe

05-05-2008 05:01:31




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to Mark - IN., 05-04-2008 19:50:07  
You forget the fuel quotas we had in the seventies.WE had limits on how much fuel oil we could buy.We had a cold spell that used a lot of fuel oil at the fire station.When I called the oil dealer they said they couldnt deliver any more fuel oil to the fire station because they had quotas.I called the first selectman,he fixed the looney tune at the oil co.Farmers were going from station to station buying what they could ,pumping fuel into 50 gallon drums.Most gas dealers made sure their regular customers got enough fuel to get the hay in.We have a new problem here,many old pumps cant read over 3.00 a gallon.New pumps cost too much and converting the old pumps is too costly for small country stores.State law prevents pricing gas at half gallons.This solved the problem in the 70s but cant be done now thanks to the fools in our state legistlature.I have been keeping a record of my gas usage on the farm for ten years so I can prove what I need when quotas come back.I need gas to cut and haul fire wood,spread manure on hayland and garden.Too old to cut wood with a bow saw.I remember gas rationing during WW2.Hope it dosent happen again.

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Mark - IN.

05-06-2008 07:31:38




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to 36 coupe, 05-05-2008 05:01:31  
But the '70's quotas that you speak of...during the oil embargo?



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36 coupe

05-06-2008 17:35:39




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to Mark - IN., 05-06-2008 07:31:38  
Many people think the oil embargo was a setup for higher oil prices.I talked with a fellow who could see the oil tankers going up river to the storage tanks.He said he saw many tankers going back down river fully loaded because the tanks were full.You might compare this to the so called rice shortage we have now.Create a shortage and you can jack the price up.



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rodgernbama

05-04-2008 19:05:15




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to Animal, 05-04-2008 17:37:57  
I hope it don't get to having to ration gas but I'm wondering we can't do more to cut our useage. Why is the US Postal service not using hybrid or electric vehicles. Looks to me that electric vehicles would be the thing in urban areas delivering the mail. Think how much would be saved over the whole country.



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Sid

05-04-2008 19:39:34




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to rodgernbama, 05-04-2008 19:05:15  
"Why is the US Postal service not using hybrid or electric vehicles." The US Postal service can save quite a bit of money by elimanating daily mail service. It would take less fuel and less manpower. Just think of what cutting Saturday service would save. These are energy savings that could be accomplished without a large investment in new equipment.



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ldj

05-04-2008 19:26:04




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to rodgernbama, 05-04-2008 19:05:15  
On postal and others using electric to conserve fuel. Now, where does the electricity come from? At .15 per kwh to recharge I'm not sure it wouldn't cost more than $3.50 gas or use more fossil fuel to make the electricity than using the fossil fuel direct in the vehicles.
Just a thought. Nothing is free. Kinda like you can't put a generator on a wheel to make electricity to run a electic motor to run the car that is driving that wheel.

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rodgernbama

05-04-2008 19:42:39




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to ldj, 05-04-2008 19:26:04  
I did'nt say it was free and I do know that it would cost electricity but my point is it would'nt be bought from the Middle East. Some of or power here in Alabama is hydro and nuclear.



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CENTAUR

05-04-2008 18:24:03




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to Animal, 05-04-2008 17:37:57  
I was born in the early 20s and every time they ration it produces an instant BLACK MARKET.It always creates criminality.In the 70s they shot and killed at the pumps. TRUE COMPETITION results in the most for the least. CENTAUR



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MarkB_MI

05-04-2008 18:14:05




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to Animal, 05-04-2008 17:37:57  
Actually, fuel was not really in short supply during the War. Gas rationing was implemented as much to conserve rubber as it was to conserve gasoline. According to my folks, farmers never felt the pinch, and city folks that needed extra gas could always get a few extra coupons. Gas stations would keep coupons from customers who didn't need their ration and give them to customers who were short.

True rationing rarely works. People were prepared to make sacrifices during the War; that is simply not the case today. Rationing just leads to a black market; it's better to let the prices rise in an open market rather than make a few crooks rich in a black market economy.

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Eric SEI

05-04-2008 19:25:59




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to MarkB_MI, 05-04-2008 18:14:05  
What I have read is that part of the rational for rationing during WWII was that it made the home front part of the war effort. It also avoided some of the worst of the black markets by assuring that everybody got something of whatever was in short supply.

Of course, for people who lived on farms, on farm butchering meant meat coupons weren't important. If you had sorghum or honey or maple syrup then sugar coupons weren't so important. Farmers generally could trade either food or coupons to get what they needed (not counting machinery).

Farmers had priority for fuel. What would be the point in letting wheat rot in the fields to save fuel?

Now days, I'm sure the geniuses that created the mortgage mess would quickly devote themselves to figuring out how to make a fortune out of gaming the rationing system. They have no sense of guilt or responsibility.

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noncompos

05-04-2008 18:09:54




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 Re: Fuel rationing? in reply to Animal, 05-04-2008 17:37:57  
Well, I was 10 in Dec 41; my father was a Motorman on the Chicago "surface lines" (streetcars). We lived outside the city, in a suburb, and while he could've had a higher allocation (as an essential worker in public transportation) only took an "A" card.
I remember he and my mother discussing how all the gas you wanted was available, at from (as I recall) four to ten times the normal price, and the same went for everything "rationed": shoes, tires, etc.. But most people followed the rules, and I'm sure it cut civilian domestic gas consumption a considerable amount. Whether it would work now is questionable, considering the lack of confidence the general public has in recent administrations, both D and R.

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