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OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead

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gun guru

05-04-2008 15:00:15




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That Damn Emerald ash borer bug has destroyed all of my ash trees. I have an all wooded lot. I am lucky that only about 2-3% is ash trees but that is probably 12-15 trees total all in size from 3" up to 14" in diameter. How many of you here are in Michigan or a neighboring state? I have to believe that this bug will destroy all of the ash trees in the US in 10-20 years time due to the inablilty to restrict transport of the ash firewood and tree removal equipment. I guess the bug can fly for a mile or so to move from ash tree to ash tree. I have a friend that had to cut down many ash trees on his 5 acre lot in Dryden Michigan 2 years ago due to this bug, Dryden is about 30 miles east of Flint Mi. The only good thing is that he was able to cut them down and log them up himself and he got a lot of firewood out of it. But what a waste! I would love to have someone mail me a bag of ash tree seeds so that I could replant ash trees after the bug has destroyed it all. If you live in Michigan and have 1 or more ash trees are they dead yet? If you live outside of Michigan be sure to treat your ash trees with pesticide so you can save them.

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buickanddeere

05-05-2008 13:44:30




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
There are some decent stands of elm around here now. 40-50ft is not uncommon and 12-15" through the trunk. Some are the tall narrow flute glass shape and others have the massive wide canopy. As the kid all I knew elms to be where great leafless skeletons with barkless limbs ready to drop on anybody with a chainsaw. Every now and again a patch of elsm will die off yet an adjacent grove still survives? Perhaps it"s some sort of natural immunity developing? It works that way with weeds & herbicides? There must be some trees in China that survive this borer? Maybe some sort of ash will make a return here someday?

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Matt from CT

05-05-2008 07:17:23




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
I haven't lost an Ash yet (don't have that many).

Did lose a couple Sycamores -- a couple hundred feet apart, too coincidental they both died the same year. Don't know what did them in.

Dutch Elm disease was before my time -- that went through here in the 1960s. Funny thing is although I had seen pictures, I didn't know what an elm "looked" like in person till I went up and looked at an ancient one still alive on the commons in Oakham, MA. Since then I've found a couple others near me just growing on the side of the road -- both look young enough to have been planted after the great wave of DED. One seems healthy, the other is dying.

And don't forget about the Chestnut Blight...my father could remember the tail end of that destruction.

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Cue P.

05-05-2008 09:18:00




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to Matt from CT, 05-05-2008 07:17:23  
Most american chestnuts and elms will live for a few years until the blight and bugs respectively get to them. There is a program out now that crossed the american chestnut with some genes from the chinese chestnut to be blight resistent. Some places have been experimentally growing them to see how they stand up. I know Tougas Farm in Northboro MA was one place.



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Matt from CT

05-05-2008 11:13:26




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to Cue P., 05-05-2008 09:18:00  
I've also read there's at least three groves of Chestnuts that seem to have survived the blight that have been found over the last 10 years or so. The researchers keep the exact locations quiet to prevent casual tourists from going to look for them.

One is in Virginia, one in Maine, and of all places one is in Amherst, MA right under the nose of UMass (they found it on some conservation land the town owned and was doing a biological survey).

Gives a little hope their may be some good genes there.

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JML755

05-05-2008 06:52:48




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
gun guru,

I live in a subdivision in Macomb County with 2 ash trees on my lot. They're dying all around me. Last year, wife put an "expensive" bug killer on our 2 trees. We thought it was working. Went out yesterday and bought some for this year. (Cost: $50 to treat a 12" & 14" tree). Took a close look at the trees last night and they are definitely worse this year. Going to return the pesticide and get the chainsaw out. I've got Ash dying on my property up near Port Huron, but luckily I've got a decent mix of pine/oak/other to keep the EAB from decimating my woods. The question becomes: What do you replace them with? When we moved into the sub 20 years ago, Ash was the tree of choice as it grows fairly quickly and is a good shade tree. This was beneficial for subs that were carved out of farmland. Consequently, thousands of them were planted. We planted a gingkoa (sp?) tree several years ago near the big ash in the backyard, anticipating we'd lose it. It's a lot slower growing though. Thankfully, I've got a locust, bradford pear, a number of pines (Norway, Blue Spruce, Austrian) also on my lot, so I won't look like a Mideast desert after the EAB goes through.

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gun guru

05-05-2008 09:17:49




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to JML755, 05-05-2008 06:52:48  
Where in Macomb county are you at?



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Fordfarmer

05-05-2008 05:57:05




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
I'm in WI... haven't heard of the ash borer here yet, but it's justa matter of time.... More wonderful imported crap! Sometimes I wonder if it was really accidental. Ban on transporting firewood here (ash, anyway... or any ash that hasn't been kiln dried), but I think it gets ignored quite a bit.



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bc

05-04-2008 20:55:15




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
We"ve got the pine bark beetles in Kansas. They are taking out all the austrian pines and I think some spruces. A couple years ago they were into cutting, chipping, and burning but now it is too late and there is no stopping the beetle until all the trees are gone.



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paul

05-04-2008 20:37:03




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
Here in southern MN, the elms went about 20 years ago. I understand there is another wave of Dutch elm disease going through now, getting the few remaining elms.

Minnesota is really frowning upon importing firewood - folks in campers coming with firewood from home to our parks & forests - into the state, or even from one area of the state to another. all firewood should be local.

I agree with that, but unfortunately then the local firewood seems to cost like 10x what it is worth.... This doesn't seem fair, & I'd guess a lot of folks will go back to smuggleing in forewood from home.....

We don't have the ash borer - yet. Likely only a matter of time.

--->Paul

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Brian in MI

05-04-2008 18:27:53




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
Hey Gun Guru,

Sorry to Hijack your post, but I grew up in Dryden, MI and moved to N. Branch about 3 years ago. My parents still live in Dryden. They live on Crawford Rd. inbetween Rochester Rd and Mill south of town. I may know your friend. Also we are having a saw party there this summer to cut down all the dead ash there also.



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gun guru

05-05-2008 02:38:17




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to Brian in MI, 05-04-2008 18:27:53  
My friend lives on the boarder of Oakland country and Lapeer county. His name is Chris. I havent talked to him since last summer.



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Edpap

05-04-2008 18:09:35




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
I live in central NY. I have heated my house for the last 10 years on dead ash. I walk the woods every summer and mark all the dead and sick looking ash trees then cut them in the fall. my woods was mostly ash and i have cut some that were 20 inches it is realy a shame. my logger budy tells me that the price of ash is low. the only good thing is as the ash dies out i have Black walnut comming in. Is there any way to save these trees ?

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RayP(MI)

05-04-2008 18:01:57




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
They'er a real problem fer sure! Understand there is a very effective treatment now on the market. But you have to treat every individual tree. Dooable in an urban setting, possibly, but not necessarily country settings where the woods are full of them.



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Mark-Mi

05-05-2008 08:32:09




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to RayP(MI), 05-04-2008 18:01:57  
Bayer company makes a systemic(drawn up through the roots.Costs 50 bucks a tree to treat a 1 foot diameter trunk.Must be done every year and not 100% effective.Get the chainsaw out.Mark



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Spook

05-04-2008 17:41:09




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
I was asked to cut down some ash trees at a BIL's place a couple years back. I was stunned to find 25 - 30 trees, from saplings to 24 in thick trees dead. It is a bug that came from china in contaminated packing matieral. It hopefully will die out, because it kills every single ash tree. As far as I know, it only infects ash trees. Trees were in Plymouth.



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ntmcj1

05-04-2008 17:32:07




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
Here is the south, the hemlock trees are dying due to a infestation. All the mature ones will be dead in a few years. Most of the ones in the Pisgah National Forrest and up on the Blue Ridge parkway in western North Carolina are infected and dead/dying. It is just like the chestnut blight in the last century that killed all of the chestnut trees.



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Mark-Mi

05-04-2008 17:23:27




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
There is no hope for Ash trees.Cut your loses now.Have a chainsaw party,I did.Mark



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Alex-41JDb

05-04-2008 16:12:18




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
We just did a clearing and grubbing job in grand blanc, mi and could only cut certain trees if they were over 6 inches besides the ash, they said cut them all down no matter what the size becuase they were all dying or will die in the near future.



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big fred

05-04-2008 15:49:40




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
We have a vacation home in the San Bernardino National Forest in California. We're in the middle of a pinyon pine forest, and there's a pine bark beetle infestation going on. The only cure is to cut down all dead trees and chip them or burn them, and make sure you strip the bark off the stumps. Fortunately, the beetles attack trees that are weak, and they're weak due to drought. Hard to fix a drought in the middle of the desert, but the last few years there's been a little more rain, and it seems to be helping a lot.

Now, even the state of California recognizes it's a problem, and they have instituted a massive program of cutting and chipping trees. If California, with it's goofball government can do it, I'm sure Michigan will figure it out sooner or later. Sounds like it won't be soon enough for you though. Sorry...

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cadet trooper

05-04-2008 15:31:52




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
Just had some forest specialists look at a young Ash sapling that I got a few years ago from a garden center end of season auction the tops started dying and I thought deer were eating it so when my wife took a Master gardener course she mentioned this to them and they wanted to look at it and when they did they confirmed EAB and I have to destroy it now so tomorrow i'm cutting, pulling and burning. They looked at my mature Ash trees and so far no evidence but they don't like my mutated double trunk trees because of unprotected trunk joints so I may have to cut those down too :-< I'm going to spray the trunks with Malathion pretty nasty stuff but I love those Ashes. I'm in SW Ohio. CT

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Billy NY

05-04-2008 15:24:53




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
That's like the dutch elm disease, which can be innoculated or treated in advance with the fungicide from the dutch elm research institute D E S I, they say it will prevent DED if treated prior to infection. The ulmus americana has a beautiful canopy when matured, between those and cherry, they were the kings of the hedgerows here and other scenic out of the way places on farms, fields, etc., you know the scenario, that one lone tree, with the big ole canopy, we lost a lot of them to DED, good thing they reproduce and grow fast, there is a new species that the D E S I created, the Liberty Elm, but to me it does not have the same look as our indigenous species. Not sure where that ash borer came from but the DED came from something on ships, these kind of things just take over, you hate to see that corner tree or the one in the middle of a field get taken out before its time, tall order to try and save em.

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gun guru

05-04-2008 15:29:57




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to Billy NY, 05-04-2008 15:24:53  
Almost all of my elm trees are dead too, I have cut down a lot of elm trees, likely over 60 or so over the last 5 years due to the DED. The DED is worse then the Emerald ash borer by far on my land. I am lucky that the Elms are small biggest one I cut down is about 8" in Diam. Mostly small 4-6" diam, cut it up and burn it in the firepit.



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MN Scott

05-04-2008 20:35:34




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:29:57  
We had DED go thu 30 years ago. It killed most of the large elm trees. Since then lots af new ones grew up but in the last three years DED swept thru again and zapped most of them. Most of them are under 12 inches. I can't burn them fast enough since they rot in a year or two. Where they are thick they sure make a mess in the pastures when they blow over.



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Billy NY

05-05-2008 05:22:28




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to MN Scott, 05-04-2008 20:35:34  
We had the same pattern, probably about the same time frame, though now it does seem to be hanging around, I don't see it so much, I guess it's really important to get rid of the dead ones and infected ones to keep it from spreading, but probably impossible to do.

I've noticed some of the elm does get punked out reasonably quick, others do not, I've found pieces that I've cut, that had no bark and have been on the ground for 2 years, you can see the full grain, no punk, dark weathering on the outside, entire inside is very hard. I think what happens is that the pieces that split allow water in, the others that don't split just weather on the outside. Even punked up it's a decent wood fuel when dry, or has some moisture when used on a hot bed of coals, it does burn clean, I'll mix it in with better ones once the fire established.

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36 coupe

05-05-2008 05:16:16




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to MN Scott, 05-04-2008 20:35:34  
Small standing dead elm make good firewood.Cut them down and get the wood under cover.Trees that were healthy last year were dead this spring.Some elm trees seem to survive for a long time but eventually die.I saw the larger dead elms into lumber.



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Michael Soldan

05-04-2008 15:18:49




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 Re: OT: All my ash trees are dead, or almost dead in reply to gun guru, 05-04-2008 15:00:15  
They are in southern Ontario, you cannot transport ash firewood in case it is contaminated, government tried to set up a zone to stop them by cutting all ash trees in a band..didn't seem to work..we're still losing Elms to Dutch Elm disease, now we're losing ash trees to the emerald ash borer..all coming from Europe and Asia in contaminated packing crates!



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