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Old Tractors E85

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genos

05-04-2008 11:18:45




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Son's MIL Filled 06 colorado up with E85? Said she didn't know the diff? not set up for flex/fuel. He Syphoned out 15 gal. Could we mix it half & half with unleaded regular & use it in the old Case 611B gas tractor without it hurting anything?




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Leland

05-04-2008 22:42:17




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to genos, 05-04-2008 11:18:45  
I love the guys here that say run it it won't hurt it ,My last S-10 was set up for E85 and it had a larger set of injectors stainless fuel lines silacone on the inside of all the rubber lines and a plastic fuel tank .So there is a reason that GM build a special system bacause E85 is more corrisive than E-10 . Even the gas stations have to spend thousands to even sell the stuff ,the tanks need a special lining sprayed in them and the pumps need altered as well .

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jd b puller

05-04-2008 19:44:48




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to David Novak, 05-04-2008 11:18:45  
Mark, it'lll also run incredibly lean and may eat the rubber stuff that it touches. Other than that....



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MarkB_MI

05-04-2008 18:24:27




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to genos, 05-04-2008 11:18:45  
I seriously doubt that any harm would have come from leaving the E85 in the Colorado. The main difference between Flex-Fuel and standard fuel systems is that the flex-fuel vehicles enrichen the mixture when an oxygenated fuel is detected. I think some of the fuel system components are beefed up for E85, but one tank of E85 isn't going to trash anything.



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JTinNJ

05-04-2008 18:21:55




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to genos, 05-04-2008 11:18:45  
I think that all the missinformation about ethanol is comeing from the oil co's.After all,trhey are in the oil business not the ethanol business.It may not be the total fix,but,it is a step in the right direction.Why are we buying so much oil from people that want to kill us?



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gene bender

05-04-2008 17:09:39




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to genos, 05-04-2008 11:18:45  
We have been using the 10% blend here in IOWA for over 20yrs without problems now everyone has wild stories out just makes for fun reading. I have a couple tractors with a rubber gasline running from tank to the card and they still run.



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marlowe

05-04-2008 17:07:41




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to genos, 05-04-2008 11:18:45  
all this hipe about E85 you can or can't do this or that well i have a 1996 Dodge 1500 4x4 245000 miles and have been running E85 for over a year truck runs fine so i use it get about 15 mpg and thats what i got on reg.gas check engine light was on all the time with reg.gas first tank of E85 light went out never came back on. so if it kills the old Dodge so be it but all i run in it now also oil stays a lot cleaner kind of looks like running LP.

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Mark-IA

05-04-2008 14:49:45




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to genos, 05-04-2008 11:18:45  
You can burn it the way it is. Might need to open the load jet a little until you run it out.Won't hurt you a bit.



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Frank A

05-04-2008 14:41:12




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to genos, 05-04-2008 11:18:45  
The main problem with E85 is seals and O rings can't handle it. Even E10 will desolve old residue in the tank and keep it in suspention so filters may need changed even more so in an old tractor and if it has rubber fuel lines it will eat on them.



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John M

05-04-2008 13:48:23




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to genos, 05-04-2008 11:18:45  
My wife did that once in her Buick, She just ran it down to hal a tank, filled it up again ,ran it down to half again, fileed it up again, and then ran it down real low and did that for severa ltanks. Never once had a probelm with the car from that.



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Bob

05-04-2008 13:59:42




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to John M, 05-04-2008 13:48:23  
One problem that can develop over time when you burn ethanol in a modern car that's NOT "flex-fuel" capable is that the commutator in the electic fuel pump can corrode, causing the pump to fail.

(The fuel pump motor runs right in the gasoline. I do NOT know how they fixed that in in-tank pumps for ethanol/flex fuel... perhaps a change of materials, or the made the motor sealed to keep the ethanol out??? ANYHOW, generally the fuel pump part numbers are different between a standard vehicle and a flex-fuel vehicle.)

Messing around COULD cost you $600 to $1000 (parts AND labor) for an in-tank fuel pump replacement.

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John M

05-04-2008 15:06:15




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to Bob, 05-04-2008 13:59:42  
She doesnt normally burn E85, she just mesed up one time and got the wrong thing. Dont see where one tank would hurt anything on that new of a vehicle for just a short period of time, but then again, my wife puts about 400 miles a week on her Buick, so it went through pretty fast. At the time she had about 160000 on the car, now I think its about 215000 and doesnt show any signs of problems. I was just making an observation as to why they drained it out.

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Bob

05-04-2008 16:21:29




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to John M, 05-04-2008 15:06:15  
I wasn't criticizing you.

I was just bringing up some information on a part that is KNOWN to get damaged over a period of time, from the use of ethanol. I wouldn'y worry a bit about an occasional half-tank or so.



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John M

05-05-2008 03:09:56




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to Bob, 05-04-2008 16:21:29  
No Prob Bob! I knew what you were saying.



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Anthony

05-04-2008 12:42:38




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to genos, 05-04-2008 11:18:45  
Assuming you can get regular unleaded with no ethanol in it, if you mix it half and half to make 30 gallons you will still be at 42.5% ethanol.

I would try to get it down lower that that, maybe in the 10-20% range. Then you could use it back in the truck. Why do you want to put in the tractor, the truck could probably handle it better?

In our area regular unleaded is 10% E10. What do you have? If you are mixing with E10 you would have to dilute it even more.

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Fancy Farm

05-04-2008 11:56:04




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to genos, 05-04-2008 11:18:45  
I new E85 didn't have the BTUs that gasoline has but didn't know it was %40 less.



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Bob

05-04-2008 11:43:49




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to genos, 05-04-2008 11:18:45  
WHY do you want to use it in the old tractor... if you factor in the cost times the greater amount burned (25% to 40%) over regular gas, sadly, there is NO $$$$ advantage.

The other problem is that it absorbs moisture, and will rust, corrode, and rot the fuel tank, etc., unless the tractor is used regularly, and the fuel is thereby kept "fresh".

I have always been "for" home-grown fuel from a patriotic and "support the farmer" attitude.

It's just to bad it doesn't work out economics-wise!

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garytomaszewski

05-04-2008 12:47:35




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to Bob, 05-04-2008 11:43:49  
Bob , where does your information come from ? The only thing I see that's factual is that it will absorb moisture, that's what alcohol does (HEET). I have used it continually in my SC case for hay mowing and raking and MAY use 10% to 20% more. 14 gallons times $3.849 (this A.M. reg gas price) = $53.89, 16.8gallons E85(120%) times $2.559 (E85 same station) = $42.99. Even using your 40% overage I would use 19.6 gal. and it would cost $50.16. I have not had problems with rust, rot, etc. Many of those myths came from the oil co. or possibly from use of wood alcohol (methanol).

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Bob

05-04-2008 13:31:19




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to garytomaszewski, 05-04-2008 12:47:35  
1.) Obviously, the economics vary a bit by price in your location.

2.) You say you are using it CONTINUOUSLY in your tractor. That AGREES with what I said. HOWEVER, accidently leave 1/2 tank in a tractor that sits unused for a couple of years, then get back to me and tell me about the condition of the gas tank and it's contents.



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garytomaszewski

05-04-2008 14:30:57




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to Bob, 05-04-2008 13:31:19  
Bob, don't real want to argue, BUT leave a tank half full of any fuel and let it set a couple years and see what you have. I personally believe the modern fuel deteriorates much faster, couple months and you have that varnish smell . And the difference between continually and continuously, the SC gets filled and may run the tank out or half or ? then sits for the 5 or 6 weeks until the next cutting.

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Bob

05-04-2008 14:37:54




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to garytomaszewski, 05-04-2008 14:30:57  
HEY, no need to argue! If it is working well for you, GREAT!

I wish I had more time/ money, I'd like to "up" the compression in an old engine or two, and see what ethanol can REALLY do!



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garytomaszewski

05-04-2008 18:15:33




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to Bob, 05-04-2008 14:37:54  
Don't the indy cars run ethanol now, seems like the fella who used to be on Rahal/Letterman with Danica Patrick,( funny how some names stick) bought ethanol in as a big sponsor, I think he got killed but just can't remember.



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Bob

05-04-2008 13:52:26




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to Bob, 05-04-2008 13:31:19  
P.S.

Internal combustion engines are essentially "heat engines".


Ethanol has about 76,000 BTU's per gallon, gasoline about 116,000, making the heat energy content of ethanol about 65% that of of gasoline.

How are you going to get around that?



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MSD

05-04-2008 18:34:51




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to Bob, 05-04-2008 13:52:26  
It's the higher oxygen levels in ethanol that make it burn efficient. BTU's are part of the equation but the extra oxygen out weighs it.



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garytomaszewski

05-04-2008 14:47:59




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to Bob, 05-04-2008 13:52:26  
The combination with 15% gasoline ups that BTU content to 82000 or about 70% of straight gas, assuming an equal swap of Btu to horsepower we are still ahead here (in my area) by using E85. It gets interesting when you are able to use a scan tool on your cars computer to see ignition retard for knock with recommended 85 octane fuel, in the old days we could hear the knock/ping now the computer adjusts before we notice.

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Bob

05-04-2008 11:48:17




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to Bob, 05-04-2008 11:43:49  
Upon a re-read, I see what you are trying to do... YES you can "mix it off" and burn it in the tractor without harm. I would just make a point to use it up, and NOT let it sit in the tractor's fuel tank for an extended period of time.



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M w J

05-04-2008 17:38:13




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 Re: Old Tractors E85 in reply to Bob, 05-04-2008 11:48:17  
Bob if you leave gas in a tank for 2 years it turns to varnish and is the $hit$ to get out .I know because I got an M farmall from my father in law It had only sat for 2 years . Ethanol does mess up some plastic. G M does recomend Ethanol fuel when avalible. My 2000 pickup says in the book as long as the octain is 87 or better use bio fuel I have had 10% ethanol fuel in a 500 gal tank for at least 2 years and it still looks and smells like it did when I put it in there and burns In lawnmowers skidsteers wifes van and 2 cly. tractors. O and by the way my tanks are very clean inside. Methanol is very corrosive and not recomended by GM or any other auto co. that I know of .

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