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high power rifel Question

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tractorran

04-05-2008 20:17:12




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what in your opinion would be a good high power rifel i dont wanna lob any bullets i want a straight shooter thinking 270 7MM always sounded cool but i want some deer left when im done any opinions are helpfull thanks




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mj

04-07-2008 09:03:41




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to fixerupper, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  

tractorran said: (quoted from post at 21:17:12 04/05/08) what in your opinion would be a good high power rifel i dont wanna lob any bullets i want a straight shooter thinking 270 7MM always sounded cool but i want some deer left when im done any opinions are helpfull thanks


I've mostly used a .250/3000 (about the same ballistics as a 6mm Rem or .243 Win) on both deer and elk. It's real good on coyotes and prarie dogs, too. The furthest elk I shot was about 300 yards. He didn't know I was anywhere around and I shot him through the lungs. He made it about 50 yards up-slope and was down and done by the time I got to him. Shot placement counts for more than anything I'd say. The .270 was old Jack O'Connor's favorite and he wrote a lot about them in his books and his Outdoor Life articles. I've shot some and, to me, the .270 seems to have a 'sharper' kick than an '06 but that's just me. If I was taking one rifle for a Canadian or Alaskan hunt it would be an 06 with several different handloads for light and heavy game. Well, after all that I'd say that if you can shoot a .270 with real accuracy it will be 'just right' for you :)

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KEH

04-06-2008 18:11:18




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  

For Keith Or:

Concerning the Jap rifles, sfter WW 2, the gunsmith and experimenter P. O. Ackley experimented with loading military bolt actions of the era with heavier loads until they blew up. The jap rifles came out the strongest. They had a good design that made use of inferior steels. Now, near the end of the war the Japanese did make some crude last ditch weapons that were dangerous. One such design was a blow back automatic rifle that used the Japanese military rifle cartridge, which was entirely too high pressure for such an application.

Japanese military rifle cartridges were the 6.5, which is slightly less powerfull than the 6.5 x 55 that someone mentioned, and the 7.7 Jap which is a 31 caliber cartridge slightly less powerful than the .308. Either of the Japanese cartridges would make an adequate deer cartridge if somebody had one.

I read somewhere that the 30=30 has killed more deer than any other cartridge in the US. For comparison's sake, the 30-30 is very slightly more powerful than the 7.62 by 39 that someone mentioned as giving satisfactory service in the Ruger mini thirty for hunting. The problem with using Soviet design military rifles such as the AK 47 and the SKS for hunting is that they have terrible sights, especially for someone with old eyes like mine. One of them with a scope would probably be ok for hunting deer sized animals.

KEH

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teddy52food

04-06-2008 16:57:38




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
One that was not mentioned was the 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser. A very accurate round, mild recoil etc. A search on google has only good to say about it.



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KIP in MX

04-06-2008 13:18:24




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
You won´t be disappointed with a rifle in .270 Win for deer hunting.



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buickanddeere

04-06-2008 10:53:59




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  high power rifle Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
While exotic names are great and some people get absolutely horrny over the "short action" idea..... Do you want something that ammo is both cheap and be bought at any backwoods corner store? Maybe even a military caliber? You can get cheap surplus ammo now and blackmarket ammo after the gov't bans civilian firearms. So that's the 12 gauge, .22, .223/5.56, .308, 30/06 and .300Win depending on who you ask. Leaning towards the .223 & .308 for center fire calibers

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dlplost

04-06-2008 09:26:17




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
Best all around is 30-06



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in-too-deep

04-06-2008 08:58:53




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
.30-06



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Billy NY

04-06-2008 08:24:46




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
A friend recently went gun happy, like a kid in a candy store, mid life crisis, who knows, was kind of funny, he works a lot, so he reinvented shooting for all of us as ours were kind of collecting dust. He spent a few thousand on the additions to his collection, there were 2 he grabbed that I liked, a heavy barrel Savage in .308, same model in a .17 too. Both were set up with good optics, that heavy barrel .308 really calls for a range finding scope too, it might be a tactical model, shorter barrel, I forget. The accuracy was unreal, with factory loads, I think it's 1:10 rifling. 100 yds I could knock off apples all day long, not much difference at 200 yds.

You need to look at the tables or charts for ballistics of a caliber you are considering, like what the .30 cal range offers, there is also no substitute for a rifle like one of these heavy barrel types, tack driving right out of the box. Then you need to shoot it, see what it likes, try handloads if you need em. I was at the range a few years ago and there were 2 U.S. Army snipers there each with heavy barrel .300 Winchester Magnums and handloads, the same weapons they used in the field in the middle east, was really interesting to shoot with these guys, they were tack driving at 600 yd simulated targets, 300 yd. actual. I have competed at this range many times with my M1A1, it was a treat to have these guys there. Each had fine tuned their weapon with handloads, it took some doing to figure out what loads were the most accurate, but the results were close to perfection, I walked to the target myself and saw this, very impressive. There is no doubt about engaging long range targets with these heavy barrel rifles once you figure out what shoots best and you practice your shooting techniques.

I like the .30 cal, it is a very versatile group, the .30-06 was developed after the 30-40 Krag, when the Germans had us beat with their legendary Mauser rifles, we came up with the M1903 Springfield in response and in time for WWI, followed by the M1 Garand, lot of military surplus of that like JD says. When the M14 arrived in 1957 as the replacement of the M1 Garand, they necked down the .30-06 to the .308 /7.62mm x.51mm but ballistically it is or I believe it is identical, they shaved off 1/2" of the brass and this allowed infantry men to carry 2x as much ammo, same thing happened with the .223/5.56mm, half the weight and they can carry 2x more ammo. I particularly am not a big fan of the 5.56mm, just me though.

The .30 cal family, my favorites including the 30-06, .308, .300 Win. Mag. has a wide selection of bullets for reloading, the latter calibers the bullets interchange, you have to look at the reloading charts, for them and select for what you need, it's a very versatile caliber to load and shoot. Look at the charts, good velocity and flat trajectory, not as flat like lighter, higher velocity bullets, but still very good, and with a better wallop.

I'm not sure how large of game with a hot load a 30-06 or .308 will be effective for, but I can tell you that just straight military ball ammunition 7.62mm w/ 165 gr bullets, if you hit a deer in the spine, it will flip the deer upside down at 100-150 yards, will also punch through an old style GM tire rim at 200 yds, there is no lack of knock down power at 300 yds with a 30-06 or .308. I have a 50-60 ft. high crows nest of a deer stand amongst a few, 2 of us were in one and a deer came out along the power line clearing, my friend hit it dead center in the heart with a 30-06 ( I field dressed it) just under 200 yds factory hunting loads, very effective. Load as you wish and easily take a whitetail at 300 yds once you dial in, I'd use it for coyote too, why not. That .300 Win mag, now that will destroy some meat if you are not careful, max. loads and close range I could post a photo of that, but this is a family site. I can also attest to what a .338 Win. does at the same range, trials and tribulations of some of my friends, he hung up that .338 Win for deer, good move! The other one with scaled back loads using a lighter bullet, still uses the .300 Win Mag for whitetail even in shorter ranges, also does a job on woodchuck, I measured out over 400 yards, and checked with a range finder, it turned the chuck inside out, was summer of '97 in a 500 yd long 24 acre field, nice shot. Same hole I got one with my M1A1, but it died inside, big difference in bullet energy at that range from .308 to .300 Win Mag, with max loads.

The .300 Win. Mag. is probably best suited for larger game and longer range, but loaded light, with the right type of bullet, it won't do any different than the .308 or 30-06, from what I have seen, just set it up for what you are hunting. Another friend has one of these and we have handloaded it quite a bit, it is a brute when hot loaded, make that first shot count, the barrel does heat up after one shot. It is overkill for whitetail in some respects, but for a long range flatter shooting type of shot with a wallop it delivers, get one of those heavy barrel models, load it for what you are hunting, very nice tool to have in the safe. Don't rule out those .30 cal rifles, they are a great and proven caliber to say the least.

That .17, I have a penny and a quarter with holes in it over 100 yds. that was another fun one, that thing has a little punch too, right loads at 100 yds, that coyote is done, especially with the accuracy, it shoots tight groups, it's a tack driver.

Another thing is practicing, none of these are effective if you don't practice, and practice correctly, it's interesting when a few of us shoot the same rifle and compare the results, also compare same from a bench rest as control, your shooting etiquette is critical to accuracy just as much as having a high quality rifle.

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jose bagge

04-06-2008 09:27:21




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to Billy NY, 04-06-2008 08:24:46  
In the 7.62, don't leave out the 54...the Jap rifles available dirt cheap in 7.62 x 54 shoot very well, almost as well as a Garand.

Also the 7.62 x 39 - I have a nice scoped Ruger in this and it is a fine gun, ammo very affordable and plentiful- and fits both the SKS and AK also in the gun safe



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Keith-OR

04-06-2008 12:15:44




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to jose bagge, 04-06-2008 09:27:21  
Yeppers, but Jap rifles were known for blowing up in your face. Junk!! Actions were too brittle..

I read many a horror stories on them when I was selecting actions for custom rifles

Keith



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mj

04-06-2008 07:22:04




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 Re: SPEAKING OF RIFLES... in reply to Glenn F., 04-05-2008 20:17:12  

jose bagge said: (quoted from post at 05:30:56 04/06/08) A moment of silence for Charleton Heston.

Great actor and great statesman....


Amen ..... Charlton was a man of his convictions. May he rest in peace.



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jdemaris

04-06-2008 06:38:05




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
I've got a three Winchester Model 70s (pre-64s). A .270. a 30.06, and a 300 H&H. They all shoot equally well - and any one of them with knock a deer on the ground, even with a bad hit. Use the right bullets and they don't mess up too much.

But- keep one thing in mind. If you get a 30.06, there are many great buys available on surplus military ammo. You won't find that for a .270 - and ammo for a 300 H&H - forget it! Very expensive, better reload your own.

I just bought a pile of Greek military 30.06 ammo - non-corrosive, reloadable, $110 per case of 480 rounds - i.e. 23 cents per round.

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dr sportster

04-06-2008 06:36:18




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
I can only talk shotguns.Thats all you can hunt deer with in New Jersey.Ithica Roadblocker.Ithica Deerslayer.Some nice Berreta.



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HeyPigFarmer

04-06-2008 05:20:57




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
I agree with a lot of stuff that has been posted on here. I use a .270 and love it, but sometimes I wish it was a .30-06. My brother has the .30-06, they kick the same (both are in Remington 700 BDL rifles) but the 30-06 has a wider selection of bullet weights and designs, especially since we reload our own ammo, and the 30-06 can be safely loaded to shoot a little faster. Not a whole lot ~100-200fps. Does it make a difference? Probably not. The 7mm will shoot out there a little farther, but for all the farther we shoot, 400yds max, it's not needed.
Not trying to burn anyone else down here, I don't like using a 243 on deer, just in case you aren't the best shooter in 3 counties and you don't get that good shot, you may just wound the thing and lose it. I like the safety factor in there.
Just my 2 cents, I like the 30-06 a little better, the 270 is still a good cartridge though and can't really fault it at all and if you plan on shooting any distance it is a good round. Can't go wrong with either one for 100 to 400yds. I would stay away from these new whiz bang super short magnum things. Stick with something that has been there a while.

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james rumph

04-06-2008 04:59:03




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
I started with a 308 and shot a few deer with it and liked the gun, but it lacked knock down power.

I hunted with a Rem 270 for several years and had good sucess with it as well. very flat shooter.

I now hunt with a Rem 7mm mag and love it.
I have shot a lot of deer with it and it " does not" make a mess of the meat. Now when i want to go elk hunting i just shoot a heavy bullet and it does double duty.

I went down to Virgina and hunted the George Washigton national forrest for white tail and loaded it with 150 grain bullets and it was perfect .

One gun that does what ever i want! Magna-port isn"t far from me and i had that done to the gun because of a bad shoulder and there isn"t much kick at all.

They say a 30-30 is a all around perfect deer gun here in Michigan "WOW" i would never use one.

I tried my 300 Winchester mag , this is not a deer gun ! Great on big game but "not" deer .

We have been playing with a couple Rugers that are chambered for 220 swift . It is like a 308 necked down to hold a 45 grain bullet. The facory box amo is rated at 4200 fps , super fast and fun to shoot.

This is a varmit gun but were kicking around trying deer with it, the damage from that little bullet at that speed is something.

I have been very happy with the Remington 7mm Mag and havn"t used my other guns sence.

It does not make a mess of meat.

My 12 gauge slugger really does.

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jose bagge

04-06-2008 09:22:08




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to james rumph, 04-06-2008 04:59:03  
My George Wahsington Nat'l forest gun is a Marlin leveraction/ saddle stock in 44 mag- peep sight with bored out apperature. Fast through the brush, accurate without going to a scope, and brutish enough to get to the target through limbs. Most of the shots I've ever had in Va (lived here all my life) could have been done just as well with a bow, so range isn't an issue....

Plus- looks classic hanging in the back window of the truck, menacing when I have to wave it at trespassers, and is loud as hell when I have to crack one off

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Gun Guru

04-06-2008 04:33:42




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
I would recommend a 30-06, or 30-30 rifle. If you want to spend over $1000 get an Armalite .308 semi-auto assault rifle. (I like assault rifles) Maybe a slug gun if it close range deer blasting.



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Rich Iowa

04-06-2008 13:52:42




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to Gun Guru, 04-06-2008 04:33:42  
I would agree with most folks on here and suggest either a 30-06 or .308, both have been used by the military with great success. Lots of snipers like the .308 and the army is even starting to use the M1s again in squads that are on patrol in Iraq.

About the assault rifle...by using that name we are helping the anti-gun groups erode away our 2nd Amendment rights. I have one of the black rifles and there's nothing about it that makes it an assault rifle, other than the media giving it that name. Myself, I prefer the term Sport Utility Rifle. :)

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jose bagge

04-06-2008 04:30:56




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 SPEAKING OF RIFLES... in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
A moment of silence for Charleton Heston.
Great actor and great statesman....



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jose bagge

04-06-2008 09:31:22




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 Re: SPEAKING OF RIFLES... in reply to Gun guru, 04-06-2008 04:35:09  
Could have been as great as Ronald Reagan if he had run for public office....



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jeffcat

04-06-2008 18:24:44




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 Re: SPEAKING OF RIFLES... in reply to jose bagge, 04-06-2008 09:31:22  
There will NEVER be another Chariot race like it again. He did 90% of his own stunts! Will miss him. Jeffcat



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Gun guru

04-06-2008 09:44:52




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 Re: SPEAKING OF RIFLES... in reply to jose bagge, 04-06-2008 09:31:22  
The Pigs in the Media, and on the left side of the aisle would have dismantled his image, and his achievements with the "Oh Guns are bad for Children crap" I would have liked to see Heston become a Senator from California. That would have been great.



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jose bagge

04-06-2008 09:31:20




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 Re: SPEAKING OF RIFLES... in reply to Gun guru, 04-06-2008 04:35:09  
Could have been as great as Ronald Reagan if he had run for public office....



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MarkB_MI

04-06-2008 04:13:17




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
Depends a lot on what you want to do. For versatility, the .30-06 is hard to beat, even if it is over a hundred years old. If you load your own ammo (and you should), there's a very wide variety of bullets in weights from 125 grains up to over 200 grains. Unless you're going after very big game, there is no reason to choose any of the magnums over the '06; a 180 grain bullet in the .30-06 is about as much recoil as most folks want to take. The only problem with the .30-'06 is it may be too much gun if you're going after varmints, particularly if you're concerned about richochets.

The only problem with the .270 Winchester is that you don't have a big selection of bullets. Either the .280 Remington (aka 7mm Express) or the .260 Remington (actually a 6.5mm based on the .308 Win) are better choices for that reason.

The .243 Winchester is a good varmint round, as is the 6mm Remington, but both are on the light side for large game. If you're sticking to varmints only, then any of the .22 caliber cartridges are good choices: The .223 seems to have become more popular than the much more powerful .22-250 and .220 Swift. It is cheaper to shoot, but also can (paradoxically) handle much heavier bullets due to the slow twist of most .22-250 and .220 Swift barrels.

I own Model 70 Winchesters in .22-250, .243 and .30-06. All of them get used, but the rifle I shoot the most is my M14 in .308. That's because the M14 is FUN to shoot! I also have a Uberti 1860 Henry in .45 Colt that is a gas. If I ever build a custom bolt gun, it will be in either 6.5-284 or 6.5-'06. These are very flat-shooting cartridges, but are only available as "wildcats"; there are no factory rifles chambered in these cartridges. I also want to get a .45-70 one of these days, just "because".

In the end, if you load your own ammo it doesn't matter that much which cartridge you choose. Go big if you intend to shoot big game; go small if you will be sticking to varmints. The big magnums cost a lot to shoot and offer little over the classic cartridges like the .270 and .30-'06.

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Tradititonal Farmer

04-06-2008 02:41:10




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
If the shooter needs a 30-06 or 7MM to kill a deer they need to learn to be a little more accurate a .243 is all you need to effectively kill a deer and will shot flater and more accurate than the larger calibers.



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Ultradog MN

04-06-2008 09:04:07




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to Tradititonal Farmer, 04-06-2008 02:41:10  
In Minnesota you can't deer hunt with anything smaller than 25 caliber.



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Kansas Cockshutt

04-05-2008 23:03:37




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
Take it from me *in my opinion* the best weapon for the job is yourself. Caliber is optional. I.E. buy what you can afford and can find ammo easily and practice practice. If you know your gun and the round than having a mule kicking lazer round is not necessary. You will know your hold over.

Everyone made good suggestions, .308 30-06, .270, 30-30 or slug gun in tight woods,just remember local mom and pop might not have .377 belted super short mule kicker ultra double magnums and that will ruin a hunt quick if you have to burn up your reserve rounds sighting in the rifle after an accidental bump of the scope in the back of the truck for instance. Not to mention the cost of those hot rods.

Others may get into advanced ballistics but if you are just harvesting humanely then the old standard cartridges and practice will be all you need.

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Walt davies

04-05-2008 22:09:37




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
I had a 77 MM Rem. mag. a while back great gun it was all custom stock barrel and custom made Mauser 98 Action. Sweet shooting gun but the recoil was enough to kill me after my arthitis got so bad. I sold it cheap wish I still had it.
270 is an old cartridge its a necked down 30-06. a lot of old cartridges were based on the 06. I once had 35 Walen just another 06 that was made larger by fire forming it.
Now I have a 17/223 wildcat that is something to shoot 4000 FPS. 25 gr, bullet.
Walt

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Ford Man

04-05-2008 21:48:58




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
My first deer rifle was a Remington in .308.I gave it to my son this year and he killed 4 deer with it.

I now use a Winchester Model 70 in .270 I got a few years back.Its a really good round with not too bad a kick.

I have shot deer with the .308 , .270 and also with a .50 cal muzzleloader using sabots and .44 cal. bullets.

All were heart/lung shots.There was very little difference in damage to the meat between the calibers. Really, there is not that much meat in that area other than a bit of the shoulder.

By the way, my son just turned 12 and he has no trouble handling the recoil of the .308.

Ford Man

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John in Nebraska

04-05-2008 21:04:55




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
.270 seems to be the new popular caliber, ammo available about everywhere. But .243 I feel is too small for white tail deer. In fact some states say in their hunting regs, nothing smaller than 7mm is to be used. Personally I prefer a .30-06 for all around, will reach out there with a 180grain bullet, and knock them down. Depends too if you hunt brush country, or open. Hills or flatland will make a difference on how close you can get. And shot placement is important in whatever you fire.

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coloken

04-05-2008 21:01:46




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
The others are pretty much right. The bullet is very important. I once hunted with a fellow who could shoot well with a 375 mag. He spoiled less meat than I did cause the bullet just punched a hole in and out. I have used a 7MM mag for years for very long range work. 243 is a sweet caliber for coyotes, deer and prary dogs. I can't fault the 270 after all these years either. 308 in a lever action is a pretty handy weapon too. Much depends on your country--open or timber.

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goforit

04-05-2008 20:36:54




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
270 and 7mm are great rifles for bigger game but if ur hunting deer 243 cal. is one of the best there is, and hunt coyotes at same time and not destroy



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Jerry/MT

04-05-2008 20:29:30




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
I use a 7mm Rem Mag and I don"t loose much meat. Shot placement and bullet type are important. Nothing wrong with a 270 either and it has much less recoil. If you"re using it for deer, you don"t need anything else. I also have a 30-30 and with the new LeverRevolution ammo from Hornady, it"s a 200 yard deer rifle. I need to put a scope on it because my eyes aren"t what they used to be!



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Goose

04-05-2008 20:22:15




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
I've never heard of a "rifel". I've heard of, seen, and used a lot of "rifles".

For an all around deer rifle, my .270 Remington does a decent job.



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jjamna

04-05-2008 20:19:57




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 Re: high power rifel Question in reply to tractorran, 04-05-2008 20:17:12  
Either one of those would be good. I like the 7mm better. As far as having deer left that depends on what bullet is used. Any gun can be hard or not hard on the meat. Bullet choice is the key.



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