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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Straight wt oil getting hard to find

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37chief

04-04-2008 19:14:02




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I wanted to change the oil in my 54 chevy flat bed with a 6cyl. I was looking for straight 40 wt, but there wasen't much of a selection. I came away with 20 50 mulit wt oil. I got to thinking that might not be good to use in my old truck engine. I have been using straight 40 wt non det. for a long time with no problems. Will the 20 50 be ok? Any thoughts. Stan




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dave guest

04-05-2008 19:04:50




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
For almost 50 years I bought whatever oil was on sale. Now you gotta edumacate me. Only oil I messed up on was graphite, which turned 425 cadillac into an oil burner and Gulfpride which burned like water. I know detergent oil keeps tiny particles in suspension so they come out but seems to me you sorta have to know the condition of engine to decide. Lotta old timers say once engine is used to certain brand of oil, never change. Something about additives from different brands don't always mix together well. Remember paraffin oil?

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buickanddeere

04-05-2008 09:40:28




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
It's been a while since thing ugly old wives tale has raised it's head.
Go and us a multiweight 20W-40 detergent and don't worry about it. If the engine is an oil burner use a low ash CF-2 oil made for two stroke detroit diesels.
If these old engine start burning oil if there was crud being scoured loose. Just run it a bit longer and get the rings unstuck. The oil consumption will drop off again.
As for these "blownup" engines due to modern oil. That machine was parked 20,30,40,50 years ago while rattling it's last breath and not repaired. Don't expect the problems to have disappeared after 40+ years of rest.

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37chief

04-05-2008 15:51:48




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to buickanddeere, 04-05-2008 09:40:28  
This old truck has only had one rest period in the early 90's when Dad was sick. I got his business going again after he died, and has been going ever since. Stan



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buickanddeere

04-06-2008 11:09:30




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-05-2008 15:51:48  
All the more reason to find some CF-2 10W-30 and use the old girl. Sorry to hear about your Dad. Mine is going in for surgery again this Tuesday, has me worried.



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Lanse

04-05-2008 08:41:42




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
The local dollar store has straight weight oil really cheap, like $1.30 a quart or such. I run it in my little mowers, it works fine



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jdemaris

04-05-2008 06:58:07




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
In my area, Tractor Supply has straight 30W and 40W. Local NAPA has strore-brand and Valvoline straight 30W. And, local Walmart has straight 30W.



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Billy NY

04-05-2008 06:31:52




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
One thing I wondered about the non det. oils, were'nt they better suited for your old oil bath air cleaners, as the contaminants settle out. vs. being held in suspension by the modern det. oils to be caught by the filter in pressurized lube systems ?

2 applications I can think of are the old Donaldson air breathers with pre-cleaner jars and engines that have sump pits, splash lube lube systems with a deep sump under the crank and bearings. The old vertical 2 cyl. 24 HP Cat starting engines are built like this, having 2 deep sumps underneath. By design I assume the oil would settle out the contaminants, but this little screamer of an engine has inspection covers that allow access to clean out those sump pits, and once clean, either oil would be fine, modern probably better. I tore down an old 14hp Kohler K321 from the late 60's not too long ago and the oil pan was heavily sludged up, but you could still see the cross hatch on the cylinder walls.

I can see some validity for non detergent oils in those air breathers as it would settle out, vs suspended but does one or the other still perform better in that application.

This would make a good "Myth Buster" theme, take an old gunked up engine and see what the det. oils do.

This is like the battery on the concrete myth.

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37chief

04-04-2008 21:20:45




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
I made a big mistake. I DO use detergent oil. I was just wondering if the 20 50 multi grade will be ok for my engine. Stan



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135 Fan

04-04-2008 22:34:32




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 21:20:45  
I was of the understanding and it is backed up by the label. Non detergent oil is used for air compressors. They don't have the contamination that combustion causes. Detergents help clean the engine don't they? Dave



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old

04-04-2008 21:05:36




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
I always use a detergent oil in all my stuff. I have 30 plus tractors and most I know no history on and I would guess some of them had non detergent oil run in them and none have ever had any oil problems. I know for a fact my 1935 JD-B ran non-detergent oil it it for years but it now is run on detergent oil and it runs well

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Walt davies

04-04-2008 20:48:20




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
I can't believe all of the old wives's tales going around on this list.
Detergent oil will not hurt your old truck or tractor. Actually if you look on the can of oil that have been using you just might find that is detergent oil. Non-detergent oil even in the single weight oils are hard to find and will be marked as such.
I use only detergent oils in all of my old tractors they are used for full time work and I have never had any problem.
Walt

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the tractor vet

04-04-2008 20:22:24




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
Well since ya got that now ya may want o pull the valve cover and the lifter galley cover and pan and clean as much crud out before then change the oil and filter sooner as it will start cleaning the engine and put all that crud down in the pan . Also the old engines did not filter the oil like the newer engines do today as the filter system was sorta and after thought as the oil goes thru the engine then thru the bypass filter . On more modern engines the oil goes thru the filter after the oil pump THEN to the bearings and the rest of the engines. Now If ya want to run a good stright weight but with good det. additives then run the case ih low as in the 40 weight. for summer and maybe a 20 W for winter.

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tractormiallis

04-04-2008 20:19:56




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
True, old engines, which often are worn and no longer tight,have sludge buildup, will burn oil when being run on a detergnet oil, as well as worn out by the loosened up sludge. I always use 30 wt non detergent in my old tractors.



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Gerald J.

04-04-2008 20:04:33




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
Why do you want to continue to abuse your engine with obsolete oil?

Straight weight none detergent oils begat sludge. Further the heavy oil means poor lubrication when starting and running cold. The lack of anticorrosion additives guarantees pitting of the crankshaft as well as the cam shaft and the bearing inserts from moisture and sulfur in the oil. In the 40s engines lasted 30,000 miles between rebuilds on straight weight oils. Now the computer dies at 200,000 miles or the body rusts off and the beearing technology isn't that much different, but the oils are DIFFERENT!

If an engine is sealed only by sludge on shafts, then the oil passages are already plugged by that sludge and lots of parts aren't getting oil. Changing to a detergent oil isn't going to make that sludge in the passages worse, in time it might improve it. So when changing to that detergent oil it might be a good idea to change oil and filter more often to remove the sludge. Detergent oil should hold the sludge (and unless an engine has been run without an aircleaner in sand the sludge should not be abrasive) in suspension or solution until its drained.

So why do you want to abuse your engine plugging the oil passages and corroding the bearing surfaces when you could clean and protect it with modern oil?

Gerald J.

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bill mart

04-05-2008 03:59:11




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to Gerald J., 04-04-2008 20:04:33  
Why wouldnt they put anti-corrision additives in non-detergent oil ?



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LenND

04-04-2008 19:56:17




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
I have bought 30 weight non detergent oil at TSC. If they don't have it on hand they can probably get it for you. 40 weight might be harder to get in non-detergent.



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Mark - IN.

04-04-2008 19:42:07




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
I don't know about you Stan, but after reading those other posts, I just learned a valuble leason. I've never run non-detergent oil, and now understand why some of the old timers insist on non-detergent for their real old iron. I'll admit I had no clue. I'm sensing you'd oughta not do that, and probably a good thing you asked first. I wouldn't have asked and been kicking myself over a costly lesson afterwards.

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iluvcase

04-04-2008 19:41:53




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
I was told by an antique engine builder/machine shop operator....to NOT use any detergent oil in an engine that has been using non-detergent oil . His reasoning....the detergent oil starts to loosen up the years of sludge buildup and this fine material (kinda like pumice or a very fine sandpaper) circulates through the engine and wears it out in no time at all. He told me that he would only use detergent oil in an old engine that has been thoroughly cleaned/washed out completely including the oil galleries. I followed his advice....i use the detergent stuff only in the engines that i completely tear down and the old ones that see only partial teardowns i still use the non-detergent oil. You will probably get alot of different thinking on this subject....this works for me. Most of the really old engines do not have oil filters and even if they do...i doubt that they could strain out the floating residue before causing some real internal damage to the engine. It"s one viewpoint for you to ponder.

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Larry59

04-05-2008 07:02:23




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to iluvcase, 04-04-2008 19:41:53  
I was told by several older men who work for Case that if I change from non detergent oil on mine. It would losen old sludge and run it into the the bearings and soon do damage to it. That the only way was to total brake down the engine and do a complete clean out of sludge. So I am sticking to the non detergent oil on mine. Seems to run fine and don't smoke and has a high oil pressure. Got mine from a lady who had the tractor for last 20 years and she said thats all she uses.

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Leland

04-04-2008 19:33:44




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
where are you located I can get you all the 40 wt ND oil you need if your close enough



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Roy Suomi

04-04-2008 19:25:29




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
Better stick to your single weight non-detergent oil..Multi-grade is usually detergent oil..



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IH2444

04-04-2008 19:24:26




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
Might be a problem, not the weight but the detergent as I expect all multi weight oil is HD.

If you have been using non detergent oil I expect a lot of crud is built up in there and the High detergent oil will cut it loose and plug passages and such.



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Mike M

04-04-2008 19:24:08




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to 37chief, 04-04-2008 19:14:02  
If you have been using non- detergent oil like you said at the end then you better NOT use detergent oil or it will loosen up all kinds of crud and plug it up.



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steveormary

04-05-2008 06:31:48




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 Re: Straight wt oil getting hard to find in reply to Mike M, 04-04-2008 19:24:08  
I changed all the tractors to a detergent oil
after I got them from Dad. Never had a problem with it. He was using 20-20 Penzoil.

steveormary



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