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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again

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Dave from MN

03-31-2008 13:48:09




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Well, old neighbor was over the other day, he's 63 and is old school farmer- disc, moldboard plow, disc, and go ever with feild cultivator(twice each way), plant, let the weeds get a good start and then spray the heck out of them, currently with round up. We have similar soils, loamy sand with areas of peat. I was telling him I wanted to try a preemerge on my bean ground to "prevent" weeds and hopefully they will canopy good before later weeds over come, but they will be RR so if needed I could give them a shot later. Beans will be drilled 14" spacing. He says I am nutts and wasting my money, he's never used a preemerge, " cause they dont work" around here. He plants 38" row beans. Is he right , and I foolish? Any good recommendations for preemrgants for bean ground? Will the pre hold back volunteer corn? I am only putting in 20 acres of beans, using 2 different varieties of beans, one feild bushy and feild tall and not bushy. Hmm, wife just giggled that I said" one feild bushy" I dont get it!

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Gerald J.

03-31-2008 20:51:16




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 Re: Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again in reply to Dave from MN, 03-31-2008 13:48:09  
Preemerge works in central Iowa.

I plan a pass of Prowl H2O on my corn stubble as soon as the ground will support a floater. Then a burn down of winter annuals with glyphosate about the time I plant (and it may be after planting before emergence because the trash wheels on the planter will expose more dandelion and wild mustard). The Prowl should get the grass and some broad leafs like cocklebur. The Prowl H2O doesn't have to be worked or rained in, its different that way than Prowl.

I'll be totally no-till.

I'll hit the patch one more time with glyphosate before the beans canopy. And with headline and with Warrier, maybe with a foliar spray of manganese sulfate because glyphosate can tie up manganese.

Gerald J.

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RodInNS

03-31-2008 20:47:35




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 Re: Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again in reply to Dave from MN, 03-31-2008 13:48:09  
I don't grow beans so mabey I shouldn't say anything.... but I do use pre-emerge on my corn. It goes on right behind the closing wheels on the planter.
I don't miss post-emerge. This is easier, one pass, done, gone and forget it. It does need rain to activate and it probably doesn't pay to cheap out on the rate too much. I've seen some small escapes and late season germination, but you get that with post too...
Talk to an agronomist or dealer in your area.

Rod

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thurlow

03-31-2008 19:18:47




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 Re: Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again in reply to Dave from MN, 03-31-2008 13:48:09  
Can't tell from some of the replies below whether we're all on the same page; around 'here', pre-emerge means using a chemical (either incorporated or not) which prevents germination or kills the tiny plant as it germinates. Are some of us talking 'burndown' i.e., killing existing weeds before planting?



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paul

03-31-2008 18:20:10




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 Re: Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again in reply to Dave from MN, 03-31-2008 13:48:09  
2 trips of glyph used to be the better idea, but if you have to pay gfor glypho at today's prices.... Maybe some of the fellas haven't noticed the price increases. As well, if you run rr corn, need to do something different to break up the same old same old.

I have very high organic, clay soil, Sonic wouldn't do much. I hear it's good in other conditions, about worthless to me.

Valor is good.

Gangster is much better.

Either do need to catch a rain after you spray, or they will be far less effective.

--->Paul

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bradk

03-31-2008 17:26:31




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 Re: Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again in reply to Dave from MN, 03-31-2008 13:48:09  
Ag PhD Hefty bros on Sunday said if weeds get a couple inches tall before spraying post,your yield will suffer up to 15% loss and won't recover for that season.

We're gonna try a pre-emerge of Roundup for the first time this year on corn and beans.All the big farmers around here do it and say it's the ticket.

Last year corn ran 216 and beans were disappointing at 48 due to wet fall and bean pop-out. We'll see what happens. SE MN

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Cliff Neubauer

03-31-2008 16:55:35




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 Re: Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again in reply to Dave from MN, 03-31-2008 13:48:09  
We've been using a pre-emerge herbicide on our bean ground since about '01 and our no-till corn ground has also had one since about the same time. In my opinion it's alot easier to keep a field clean by preventing weeds from growing than trying to kill them once they've started. We've noticed our weed pressure is alot lower than it used to be since the weeds aren't going to seed anymore.



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Bill(Wis)

03-31-2008 16:41:59




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 Re: Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again in reply to Dave from MN, 03-31-2008 13:48:09  
I plant a lot of beans and I've never used pre-mege anything. Your friend plants in 38" rows because he has an old planter that does that. If he plants beans on beans year after year he's making a mistake. If he rotates with corn using the same planter he must use an old combine with a 38" header or an old picker. Leave him to his own way and start fresh. If you plan to rotate your beans with corn, use roundup on the beans but NOT ON THE CORN. My neighbor, who knew nothing about beans, decided he'd do the roundup thing in a corn bean rotation. His bean fields look like poor corn fields and his corn fields are full of beans. He'll get it straightened out, eventually.

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IaGary

03-31-2008 16:30:19




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 Re: Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again in reply to Dave from MN, 03-31-2008 13:48:09  
On beans I may use Sonic as a pre-emerge or I may not.

If not I will have to spray twice after they are up.

With Sonic it will hold the weeds till the beans are knee high.

Corn I always use a pre emerge.

Gary



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rrlund

03-31-2008 15:51:28




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 Re: Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again in reply to Dave from MN, 03-31-2008 13:48:09  
You're right,he's wrong. Most of these herbicides are so cheap now that you can go a half rate and get decent control then clean up with one shot of Roundup. With fertilizer prices being what they are,why would you want weeds using up nutrients,let alone water. Don't listen to him.



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Allan In NE

03-31-2008 15:29:49




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 Re: Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again in reply to Dave from MN, 03-31-2008 13:48:09  
I've been out of the loop for quite a while on beans so maybe there is now a better way of doing things.

However, I used to use Epatm incorporated right ahead of the planter. Stops everything cold except legumes and/or volunteer corn for a good 30 days.

The real kicker was that it would stop black nightshade.

Allan



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Steve in MN

03-31-2008 14:39:45




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 Re: Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again in reply to Dave from MN, 03-31-2008 13:48:09  
Good idea if your planting corn. Probably better to spray your beans twice with Roundup if needed. Hit em once shortly after that first flush of weeds, (should get by with a lower rate here) and again before canopy if needed. Talk to an agronomist, he should be able to help you with a tank mix to kill the volunteer corn. Shouldn't cost much either. Steve



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thurlow

03-31-2008 14:10:17




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 Re: Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again in reply to Dave from MN, 03-31-2008 13:48:09  
We quit pre-emerge for beans in the late 70s/early 80s when Basagran, Blazer, Poast, Fusilade and all those other post-emerge chemicals became available. If you're planting RR beans, why consider pre-emerge? Unless you've got marestail, Palmer pig-weed or other Roundup resistant weeds? Why not ask the extension service/chemical dealer or a local full-time farmer?



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Bruce Hopf

03-31-2008 18:48:56




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 Re: Preemerge vs post emerge spraying.. again in reply to thurlow, 03-31-2008 14:10:17  
We always used post emerge spraying here. The last few years, we renred out our land, because I wasn't able to with my back, the last guy used premerge spray, for the 3 years he had the land, it was nothing but WEEDS WEEDS WEEDS. He never came back to respray, and he was very upset when he couldn't have our land again, to crop. You have to get the rains at the right times, in order for it to work right. Now it is going to take alot to get the land back to normal without weeds prior to this guy having it. My ex Fatherinlaw, tried Pre emerge spraying for a few years, and always had to respray, later on the same fields.
If you are going to spray, do it right the first time.

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