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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Anti-freez, or Anti-rust

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37chief

03-25-2008 08:55:52




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Will the Anti-rust (the white stuff) give the same rust protection as anti-freeze? I don't need the freeze protection where I live. Stan




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Frank A

03-25-2008 17:03:27




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to 37chief, 03-25-2008 08:55:52  
Any diesel with wet sleeves needs a low silica anti freeze with cavitation preventives. Coolant systems with pressure a cap already raises the boiling point of water. In a gas engine any of antifreeze benefit wouldn't be enough to be noticeable, if you use soft water.



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Texasmark

03-26-2008 07:17:44




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to Frank A, 03-25-2008 17:03:27  
As I said in another thread. JD makes a coolant additive that is supposed to help suppress sleeve pitting.

I checked the contents the other day and to my surprise the label said it contains Nitrites, Nitrates, and Phospates. Now what does all that mean? I certainly don't know. Sounds like you are fixing to grow something with all that "fertilizer" stuff.....and the water. Grin

Mark



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John M

03-25-2008 16:17:33




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to 37chief, 03-25-2008 08:55:52  
Knowing what your doing may make a world of difference.



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37chief

03-25-2008 18:00:06




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to John M, 03-25-2008 16:17:33  
This is in a non pressurized system on my A/C Model M crawler with a gas motor. Stan



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John M

03-26-2008 03:10:45




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to 37chief, 03-25-2008 18:00:06  
OK, I didnt know if you were doing some kind of experiment or something. Use antifreeze. MOST if not all antifreeze, wil have additives to help prevent rust, and wont freeze, just in case! Im not sure of the corrosion factor of antirust, Im really kinda unfamiliar with it, but assume that it is just a rust preventative type deal, like say, WD40 or the like.Again, most if not all antifreezes will have rust and corrosion inhibitors in it.

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Texasmark

03-25-2008 15:22:50




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to 37chief, 03-25-2008 08:55:52  
Don't mean to rain on anybody's parade, but I have been seeking scientific answers to this question for over a week. Get a lot of conjecture, but few if any facts. For the third time, how about some concrete facts. Got no facts, let's go off and talk about grand kids fishing in your (my) pond. We will all get a lot more out of that.

Mark



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Walt davies

03-25-2008 15:09:32




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to 37chief, 03-25-2008 08:55:52  
Anti-freeze is actually pretty cheap protection that will last a long time. We kept it in the equipment in the Army for 5 to 10 years with no bad effect.
My 97 Ford Ranger still has the same water Anti-freeze mixer that came with from the factory. 62,000 miles on it.
Walt



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James22

03-25-2008 13:48:53




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to 37chief, 03-25-2008 08:55:52  
Antifreeze does raise the boiling point of water, but how many old tractor radiators run above the sea level boiling point of pure water which is 212 degrees F. Actually unless you have one of the new engines which are designed to run hot, distilled water and an added rust inhibitor/water pump lubricant, which you mentioned, will cool the engine better. Plenty of experience to pack up this statement by having participated 30+ years in developing off-road vehicle cooling packages. Several MM operator manuals I own, recommend draining the antifreeze and using water and anti-rust in the summer months for the mentioned better cooling. I don't do it because it would be a big hassle, although I do watch the temperature gage. However, diligent consideration must be given to cylinder liner cavitation erosion/pitting. Would sure use antifreeze in an IH engine which has history of this problem. Don't know about JD's. If they mention it is OK to use water and a rust inhibitor then do it.

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Janicholson

03-25-2008 14:53:55




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to James22, 03-25-2008 13:48:53  
Coolant (in the 50s) was often Alcohol. THis would boil out easily in the summer just thinking out loud JimN



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James22

03-26-2008 09:11:17




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to Janicholson, 03-25-2008 14:53:55  
Yes, you are correct about the alcohol. However the operator's manual for the MM model 1050 which was built in 1971, which is long after alcohol was commonly used, contains the same information relative to removing antifreeze for summer operation. With Stan's gas engine, I wouldn't hesitate using distilled water and a good anti-rust additive unless the OEM operator's manual stated otherwise. Not real familar with antifreeze additives with the exception of silicates. The problem with silicate is that it can precipitate out with other additives common in diesel engine antifreeze and/or hard water into a jell and screw things up.

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02XLT4X4

03-26-2008 09:35:26




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to James22, 03-26-2008 09:11:17  

James22 said: (quoted from post at 09:11:17 03/26/08) With Stan's gas engine, I wouldn't hesitate using distilled water and a good anti-rust additive unless the OEM operator's manual stated otherwise.


I would just put in antifreeze and be done with it. We got a good deal on a tractor after some one put water in their brand new engine (could still read the writing on the clutch material) and forgot about it during a cold snap and it froze. Cracked the block between each cylinder and punched a hole in the sleeve, on a engine that at most circled the shop a couple times.

Granted in some areas cold weather isn't a issue, but the only time I run water is RIGHT after I put it together and I am checking for leaks.

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Don L C

03-25-2008 11:23:23




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to 37chief, 03-25-2008 08:55:52  
Stan ---

Anti-freez no only keeps your car/truck from freezing, but alowes it to cool better/rust protection..... ..Don



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bill mart

03-25-2008 14:18:33




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to Don L C, 03-25-2008 11:23:23  
I dont know, John Deere M's seem to run cooler on plain water than they do with anti-frreze.



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Janicholson

03-25-2008 10:04:25




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to 37chief, 03-25-2008 08:55:52  
Use antiferrze in all engines with liquid cooling (water based). The corrosion inhibitors, anti foam agents seal and water pump lubricants, andrust protection are built in. The material also increases the thermal transfer, and boiling point (mentioned below) JimN



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Texas Sand

03-25-2008 09:09:44




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 Re: Anti-freez, or Anti-rust in reply to 37chief, 03-25-2008 08:55:52  
One thing to remember about anti-freeze is that is also raises the boiling point of the water, that might be useful.



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