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Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT)

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ktheo1

02-18-2008 15:46:08

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Just saw the 6:00 news and the video of a bunch of broken down dairy cows being mistreated .I was wondering why when this happens it is the "BEEF" producers that suffer the consequences of dairies sending thier broken down cows to slaughter.Every time there is bad publicity from mad cow to this latest deal its dairy cows .I could just hear the scream if beef cattlemen did something to sabotage the milk business. A local large dairy used to send them to the local sale barn till they were told to stop if they couldn't walk off the trailer they had to take them back home.

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caterpillar guy

02-19-2008 21:39:46

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to ktheo1, 02-18-2008 15:46:08

They may very well have walked on and off the trailer but waiting for even a day in some cases will have a sever effect on an animal that is not up to par. Lets look at the time from shipping to packer load in morning then ride to sale barn and wait for sale ring then move to new pen to be loaded to ship to packer then ride to packer to wait in a pen for slaughter now on the 2nd to 3rd day no feed or water. You try that and see how weak you are by the 3rd day.Like milk picked up every other day then rides on truck for the route then to dairy for prcessing then on truck to warehouse then to store then sets in your refidgerator till drank about a week there till consumed. Now the government Id is BS look at the tags for the mad cow crap a neighbor had them put in and in less than a year half of them where lost out and needed to be redone.So much for the trail of history when you can do it just before sale. What a scam.

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greygoat

02-19-2008 09:11:30

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to ktheo1, 02-18-2008 15:46:08

I've been in one of those "Whole Cow" ground
beef plants, and the conditions aren't nice.
The foremans all looked like a TV version of a
Mafia hit man, and I always thought, "Wow, what a good place to dispose of a body!" I saw the
spot on CBS news, and it was sad--- but remember,
that cow was going to be dead in 5 minutes any-
way, and ground up and on the way to Mac and Dons
as pattys in an hour or 2.

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rrlund

02-19-2008 07:33:59

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to ktheo1, 02-18-2008 15:46:08

Let me clarify a little bit what I meant yesterday when I said I didn't totally disagree that the dairy industry was partially to blame. I milked cows for 33 years before I went to beef,so I don't necessarily blame dairy farmers. I never wanted to have to destroy a cow and burry her then any more than I want to now. Who I do blame is the purebred dairy cattle industry. The breed associations,the universities,purebred breeders...take your pick. You don't notice it until you get away from it and look from the outside,but those are NOT hearty animals. They seem to be bred entirely with one thing in mind. Milk production. They seem to forget balance. Those are living breathing animals,not milk making machines. As proof,I would mention that one of the top Holstein AI bulls,they found out just a year or so ago,had a heck of a high mortality rate for his calves. The ones that survived would milk like crazy,but they had to survive.The problem was a genetic defect. When you get used to looking at beef cows,then look at those big bagged,boney,hobbling Holsteins,it opens your eyes.

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barnrat

02-19-2008 06:49:26

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to ktheo1, 02-18-2008 15:46:08

Beef cows stand in poop all day and eat too much corn. My dairy cows stand, sleep and eat on mattresses or pasture. They eat mostly grass and when one gets too old to be productive as a dairy cow(up to 16 years old) any more she has to walk on and off the trailer to the auction barn. If she is unable to do that she is put down and composted. I can't speak for other dairy farmers, but they probably are too busy wondering why the price of milk is so low to worry about the care of their cows.

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ChrisB

02-19-2008 05:18:22

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to ktheo1, 02-18-2008 15:46:08

If the government is so ignorant and blind that this was going on for two years, while this packer was under contract with the USDA, then I highly doubt any national ID would do any good.
The only answer possible, that would allow such obvious violations, is a corrupt USDA no national ID will solve corruption.

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TomTex

02-18-2008 19:21:11

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to ktheo1, 02-18-2008 15:46:08

About $10,000 fine on seller would be nice.
About $50,000 on any middlemen.
About $500,000 on the packer.
Fire the USDA inspector, his boss,and his boss's boss. Withhold their pensions.
Problem would stop in a heartbeat.
Tom

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Dave from MN

02-19-2008 05:38:29

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to TomTex, 02-18-2008 19:21:11

Exactly!!! Accountability seems to have become a term of the past. Almost every paper has an ad for" sick, lame, downed, crippled cows wanted. Although I wouldnt want to take the loss either, that is the business, these cows should not get into a food supply plant if they are prohibited from slaughtering them. I was told once that a cow with a fever should not be eaten. I wonder if that is true.

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kyplowboy

02-19-2008 01:35:08

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to TomTex, 02-18-2008 19:21:11

I have been reading all I can on this (slow night at work) and the way I understand it these cows had been inspected one time and went down before they got to the rail. I agree with you on the fines and fire'ns, but why should the seller be fine'd if a cow goes down in transit. The cull cows sold here go to hundreds of miles to the plants. If a cow walks off my trailor but will not walk off the trailor when she gets to Green Bay three days later why should that come back on me. I have to pay insurance at the stock yards, when does that policy void? When the order buyers buy these cows for the plants they know they are not much to start with. For what is paid for cull cows and what hamburger cost at the store looks like they could take the loss and bury a few.

Sorry for the rant here, just hate to see things come back on the producer that happened to the cow after he had anything to do with her. Kinda like my rant on here a few months ago about a punk at the stock yard use'n a bull whip to put calm cattle in a pin. After they walk off the stock trailor (unless they have something bad that is catch'n) the farmer should be able to cash is check and go home.

Once again sorry for the rant.

Dave

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jonjon

02-18-2008 17:45:07

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to ktheo1, 02-18-2008 15:46:08

On your note of dairy cows and mad cow disease. From what I read and gather the problem had something to do with some beef farmers (not all & no blame to anyone here) who were to cheap to buy feed and decided that chicken crap would make a good sub for corn.

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kyplowboy

02-19-2008 00:48:34

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to jonjon, 02-18-2008 17:45:07

I am not an expert on the issue but I don't think mad cow has a thing to do with chicken litter. All I have ever read was it happened when cattle were fed ruminant byproducts. When it first broke out they traced it to a rendering plant makeing cow feed with sheep parts. Where did you read and gather that BSE was traced to broiler litter, thats a new one for me.

There is not much broiler litter fed anymore, never herd of it hurting a thing. Just was not good PR when people freaked out over the idea and started blame'n the practice on every thing from BSE to uneven tire ware.

Dave

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Jared M

02-18-2008 19:54:33

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to jonjon, 02-18-2008 17:45:07

jonjon, mad cow is believed to be caused by feeding ruminant derived bone and bloodmeal to other ruminants, the are still allowed to use meals from monogastrics. chicken crap is used as a protein supplement. it is a source of nitrogen and ruminants can synthesize protein from nitrogen with the microbes in their rumens. It is used in small amounts, the most I have heard of is 10%, they problem is the cows dont like it. Jared

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jonjon

02-19-2008 00:50:17

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to Jared M, 02-18-2008 19:54:33

Guys here were feeding the real stuff pure 100% chicken crap. When you get hungry enough you will eat anything.

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Silver Pig

02-19-2008 01:13:13

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to jonjon, 02-19-2008 00:50:17

Be more specific, is it the heavily subsidized DAIRY 'farm', or the BEEF cattle feeder?

Despite having the govt. support the price of milk, these DAIRY 'farms' are out to cut corners every way they can.

As a small time (<350 head)cattle feeder,I am sick and tired of being tarred with the same brush, when, each and every time, it is the DAIRY 'farms' that are the source of the problem.
Dairy Breeds for Dog Food, simple solution to the problem.

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Eric SEI

02-18-2008 19:54:28

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to jonjon, 02-18-2008 17:45:07

Mad cow has nothing to do with chicken manure. Cows that already had mad cow disease were rendered and the resulting product was used in cattle feed. This infected even more cattle. The most common country for mad cow disease is Great Britain.

I seem to remember that a voluntary moratorium on animal protein in cattle feed was declared by the American feed industry a decade before most people had heard of mad cow, which is why we have had so few cases.

Some people believe that scrapie in sheep is the origin of mad cow disease. Others believe it already existed in India, and that bones from infected cattle were collected and sold for bone meal, which was then sold to Great Britain and used in cattle feed. There is no proof yet where it started or how long it has been around.

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kyplowboy

02-18-2008 17:38:14

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to ktheo1, 02-18-2008 15:46:08

While producers will be the ones hurt the most in this deal, from what I have been reading producers had nothing to do with this. Not going to speek for every one put I have kept cows too long and sold some who where not move'n too good. The deal here is the cows went down between inspection and the rack. The packer should have had them looked at again and did not. That is the way I understand it anyway.

Here the stock yards will not take anything that can not walk off the trailor.

Dave

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Dairy Farmer in WI

02-18-2008 17:05:08

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to ktheo1, 02-18-2008 15:46:08

in WI it's illegal to send cows to a shoughter house or for butcher if it can't gat i and out of a trailer by itself. there is an acception if you are keeping the meat for yourself for the bucher i use. most won't. but it HAS to be walking in order for it to go into the food supply anyway.

DF in WI

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tlak

02-18-2008 16:46:05

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to ktheo1, 02-18-2008 15:46:08

Rant should first be about the Gov underfunding any inspection processes, just let the businesses do whatever they want to do, then why is the Gov so late on the recall and the news reporting a massive recall about meat that's almost totally eaten? Then this meat processor has problems, how many organs could be punctured and pollute all the meat? Then your rant last, how many people watching knew that they were looking at a dairy cow? When one of my animals goes down I don't try to haul it to the stockyard.

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jonjon

02-18-2008 16:19:31

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to ktheo1, 02-18-2008 15:46:08

Don't know about every where else but our cows have to walk in to be sold at market or slaughtered. What they do with them after I sell them is there business. Where was the U.S.D.A inspector.What do you do with your cows when they get old or broke down keep them till they die and bury them. We have 300 dairy cows kinda impossible to keep them all till they die and expensive to sell a good milker because she is old. Do you watch your cows till the time they are slaughtered to make sure they are not mistreated. Get over it.

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ArleninOr

02-18-2008 16:15:09

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to ktheo1, 02-18-2008 15:46:08

Don't ever remember milk being recalled but do remember dairy farmers dumping their milk to protest milk prices.

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BLinWMi

02-18-2008 16:04:30

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to ktheo1, 02-18-2008 15:46:08

I don't buy your logic. Are dairy cows the only animals that get milk fever or ketosis and never get up again? Are dairy animals the only ones that break a pelvis in calving and never get up again? Just because the clowns on tv only show holsteins in the footage doesn't mean the beef guys don't send just as many down cows to the market. I would like someone who could actually put some numbers to the down cows as to why they couldn't walk. How many cows are actually in this counrty down because of hoof and mouth, or BSE or any other exotic ailment? Basically, NONE. So in reality the dairy guys are losing just as much money by the PR as beef guys are.

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Spook

02-18-2008 17:12:43

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to BLinWMi, 02-18-2008 16:04:30

Don't know much about cows, but the beef guys are the ones suffering from the PR problem. It's their beef that people might not buy. The dairy guy will still get his milk check. And a national ID system to allow tracking would eliminate a lot of this.

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Keith in NW MO

02-19-2008 03:13:31

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Re: Meat recall Dairy VS. Beef Producers (RANT) in reply to Spook, 02-18-2008 17:12:43

That's right the national ID will probably even stop uneven tire wear. No wonder the government gets more control everday, give me a break.

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