OT setting poles on concrete piers ????

The concrete piers with connections look interesting, it would seem to give you the same properties of a post set in ground if the concrete extended below the ground to the same depth and the connection to the post was strong. I've often wondered what alternatives there were to wood posts placed in ground.

Few shots, did these by myself, treated bottoms and one line of posts going in

That being said everyone that has a pole building over probably ten years old that has the poles in the ground should check about 8-10 inches below the soil level. I don't care what salesman claims their poles are rot proof and all the other pack gravel sales pitches. POLES ROT, and we have redone alot of them once you show the building owner what is goin on. The salt treat, and pena treat were the worse ones. I can give you addresses of farmers that had fences seven years old and I could bust the six inch posts off at ground level with my shoulder.

Many sheds are sitting on top of the ground so to speak--regardless of what the salesman made for statments. Anyone ever cut a RR tie into? Find one that has split wide open with the crack upwards. Then take a rod and start digging, they are mush in the center, leaving only a shell of actual strength. We learned this the hard way while jacking a barn full of hay, and the best looking RR tie in the bunch. It turned to mush on us, no one got hurt, and no damage other than my pride.

If you use poles, make sure they have no knots or cracks below ground level. Yea that will happen! Laminated poles are 2 x 6's nailed together. Ever seen a deck that rotted away? I may have the soil conditions that are bad --Clay soil, it will hold water. That is what they make pots out of years ago. But regardless the chances are pretty good of you poles rotting off.

Cement piers are going to cost you more, and not worth the extra cost if you are going to sell the building later on in life. However if you want it to last and avoid high wind shear go with the piers and lots of bracing. You will lose a fraction of strength not having the poles in the ground, but you can overcome that real easy with bracing.

When placing any concrete don't forget the rebar if you want to keep the building for along time.

They make post sockets for decks, but they are not long term compared to 1/2 in welded plates.

I have but only a opinion, and have losted or walked away from many buildings. I seldom have any competition or do I have price driven folks when it comes time to save the building I lost the bid for years ago. Your extra cost will soon be lost in your memory, but a poorly made building can tick you off for many years to come.

I did not intend to disrespect anyone that is more than satisfied with their building. Just advise them to check their buildings where the soil and air mix on the pole. Forget the tree huggers and dump your wast oil around the base of the poles, it will help alot.

Modern procedures are not always perfect. Ever watch the TV when a high wind takes down pole sheds....Sheared the posts off at ground level? The wind took the whole or half the roof off the house? I will guarentee it was probably not a stick built house. The wind took this tree down! In our area it was probably a Soft Maple if all the other trees are still standing. Otherwise the tree should have been harvested years ago? The building colapsed under all that snow! How much web bracing was on the rafters? Probably the building colapsed and pulled the nails out of the web bracing and filled the nail holes in as well. The wind took the whole roof off, must have been a bad wind because it took the huricane straps off and tossed them into outer space because we can't find any of them. The garage door header is sagging from all that snow we got last winter. These are just a few of the things that make me upset. My insurance goes up because of these things. I would guess seventy five percent of all my wind repair is because it was not done corect the first time, or was lacking of attention. While I'm ranting uncontroalably how many machine shed doors are replaced every year because the gravity of the door did not hold it down in the wind?

I best go take my blood pressure pills and get to doing something.

You need to take a look at this system by FBI called PERMA-COLUMN. Similar products are available from other companies.

• FBI Buildings

• Text on topic

I put up buildings for a living and deal with structural engineers everyday.

And your qualifications are?

Do it the same way I do when erecting a steel building. Stand up your post and brace it well until your perimeter framing has been completed.
Once all members have been tied together you are good to go.

Easy on the ground, as they get more upright it gets a lot harder to push them.

Once in the hole they wont move. Just double brace and your good to go. If you have to move them a little just put an ice spud or similar down in the hole to get all the poles in line.

I used 18" biscuits, which gives a little more room in case a hole is off by a little.

Good luck,
Rick

With the building trade, I've seen many new methods come and go. Some work well, some fail and lead to law-suits. Same can be said with many structures designed by licensed structural engineers. When our Interstate highway collapsed last year, killing several truckers - the cause was a mistake a structural engineer made. That happens often but don't not always make the headlines. Research the recent failures in bridge collpases, highway overpasses falling down, the "Big Dig" failure in Massachusetts, etc. - all due to engineering mistakes. In regard to companies that sell overpriced buildings - well duh ... seems to me that are in business to make the most profit possible, and not doing it for altruistic reasons. Subsequently they do not use the best materials, only enough to meet code - unless you specifiy otherwise. I contacted Morton last year for an estimate for a new barn I needed. What they suggested was crap. I then designed it myself and custom selected all the materials. My version cost a little more, but will be standing long after I'm dead. Two years ago a new and huge Morton horse barn and indoor-stable got put up near me for some new city people that had just moved in. It collapsed 6 months later when we had two big snowstorms within a week. Several horses got killed and naturally, a law-suit came into play. It was settled before court. That building was built to county code specs at the time that were not adequate for extreme conditions.
A few dollars extra spent on overbuilding would of prevented the problem. And, your comments about utilitly poles? Come on, that's beyond silly. They are used all over this country and many have lasted well over 50 years - even a few that weren't treated and were only cedar (some might of had some creosote added). In fact, our village kept the original cedar utility poles for historic and ornamental reasons and now have sidewalks poured around them. They were put in before World War II and are still standing. Again - in regard to you having reverence for anecdotal posts with opposing view-points? I've gotten many private emails about this thread from pole-barn builders and owners who say they agree with me - some with pole-barns that were built 50 years ago. If you really believe that some power company near you had poles that rotted out in 20 years - tell me about it and provide some real facts. I don't believe it - but would like to investigate it. What power company, when and where? In regard to what I've mentioned - I'll give you full source citations for all if you want them.