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We're running out of dirt?

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SheldonS

01-23-2008 08:14:40

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All on account of greedy farmers and careless tillage, Earth is being scalped and we will run out of dirt in less than 100 years if I do this wizard's math...

Stupid Geologist said: "We're losing more and more of it every day," said David Montgomery, a geologist at the University of Washington. "The estimate is that we are now losing about 1 percent of our topsoil every year to erosion, most of this caused by agriculture."

See for yourself here: Earth's scalping

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ericlb

01-23-2008 16:30:28

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Re: We're running out of dirt? [ well....] in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

i hardly think we have a dirt shortage, the village idiot got his 15 min of fame with this one, i think on average [ ive been known to be wrong] most farmers disturbe only about the top 18 inches of ground with their farming activities, at the gravel pit i haul for, the pit they get the raw material from is over 150 feet below grade and they still have lots of dirt down there, and this is a pit the size of 4 football fields or so

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Jack a

01-24-2008 04:04:34

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Re: We're running out of dirt? [ well....] in reply to ericlb, 01-23-2008 16:30:28

I think you need to think again. I've seen the big farmers move in and plow up every waterway and then were forced to put them back in after 4 or 5 years because they could no longer drive their equipment acroos the field due to 3 or 4 foot deep by 10 foot wide wash outs. Gently rolling land can't go without some conservation. Used to be hay ground and wheat and oats grown along with corn and beans and the hills were pastured but now all is corn and beans. Definetly need waterways and mintil now.

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john in la

01-23-2008 16:26:02

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

The thing that caught my eye is that one farmer (John Aeschliman) is complaining about his neighbor farmer because he does not farm in the same way and is runing the earth in the process.

I do not know about you guys up there but that is a barn burning on a dark night offense down here.

Any way if he wants the dirt back you can tell him I found it.

Mississippi Delta from space

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teddy52food

01-23-2008 18:48:00

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to john in la, 01-23-2008 16:26:02

Where is the delta for the river that runs through the Grand Canyon? Any pictures of it?

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john in la

01-24-2008 00:02:39

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to teddy52food, 01-23-2008 18:48:00

Unlike the Mississippi River the Colorado River does not have much of a delta anymore. It is dammed so much for irrigation and power plants the sediment never reaches the coast.

Once a Mighty Delta

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2x4

01-23-2008 23:11:38

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to teddy52food, 01-23-2008 18:48:00

thats the river that ends in downtown Phoenix

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dhermesc

01-23-2008 14:56:41

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

So where does this guy say it's going? 1% of the top soil in the US would make a mighty big pile of dirt somewhere - it sure as **** just aint "lost".

In case he didn't know the deltas (like the Mississippi) were created have been growing since the last Ice Age. Long before the plow was even dream of.

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JD9295

01-23-2008 14:20:35

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

every village has an idiot, apparently someplace has lost theirs

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Juan

01-23-2008 12:16:45

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

It must have something to do with Mr Gore's global warming theory. The dirt is simply evaporating

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gene bender

01-23-2008 11:32:30

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

We are farming lees acres with less people and still have a surpluss. 27mil acres in CRP. I was told 50yrs ago we wouldnt be able to feed the USA so much for the sooth sayers. Put some money on the table and watch the AMERICAN FARMERS getr done. send that guy here and i will show him ground that yrs ago didnt produce diddly now it raises 150 pluss yr after yr.

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Vernon in Ks

01-23-2008 10:51:51

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

I learned to farm from my father, He grew up in the "Dust bowl". He taught me the importance of top soil and how to protect it. Through contour farming,terracing,waterways,rotation and grass breaks. I don't totally disagree with the article as I have seen how some of "The big boys" (those with several thousand acres) farm. Some are stewards to the land and others are users. I personally do not no-till. I don't like using a lot of chemicals. I do believe it finds its way into the ground water and I still like a good cool clean glass of it when I'm thirsty. Now I'm not saying no-till is bad, but it is not the only or best solution on every piece of ground that is farmed. Sorry to rant. Just my 2cents

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SheldonS

01-23-2008 10:02:58

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

jayinNY said: Sad thing is there are farms, one which I have worked on, were they have no were to spread manure after cleaning 90 horse stalls a day. They just dump it onto a pile thats been there for 15 years, or longer. Im sure huge feed lots have the same problem.

My piles aren't 15 years old, but they're getting there. I have a smaller ranch, so it grows at a much slower rate.

I've been meaning to read up or ask around about spreading it over my pastures. The problem is, my piles (like most, I'm sure) have LOTS of pine shavings and I'm not sure how good that would be for the dirt.

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dhermesc

01-23-2008 14:44:34

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 10:02:58

90 horse stalls and the pile has been growing for 15 years? That horse barn isn't the only plae it's getting deep.

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jayinNY

01-23-2008 16:06:58

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to dhermesc, 01-23-2008 14:44:34

Dont get what you mean? We would just empty the dump wagon on a huge pile. I will post a pic under the tractor pics if you want to see it. dunno

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SheldonS

01-23-2008 09:59:52

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

Walt Davies said: Well the top soil in Sacramento delta in Central is 1500 ft. deep of fine peat moss.
Walt

That's pretty good dirt over there.... Lots of clay out my way 30 minutes away.

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jayinNY

01-23-2008 09:59:41

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

Sad thing is there are farms, one which I have worked on, were they have no were to spread manure after cleaning 90 horse stalls a day. They just dump it onto a pile thats been there for 15 years, or longer. Im sure huge feed lots have the same problem.

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Walt Davies

01-23-2008 09:54:15

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

Well the top soil in Sacramento delta in Central is 1500 ft. deep of fine peat moss. I bet he didn't look at that part of the country.
Where he lives in Washington the top soil is not much and 100 years would not be much left but then did he take into account about the new stuff being washed down stream into th valleys every year. some of our valleys got about 100 ft. of new stuff this year from flooding.

I don't like to listen to just one guys ideas they always want to scare into thinking there way.

What we need is a comprehensive study by parties on all sides to get together with there data not ideas and see what is really happening out there.

Walt

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SheldonS

01-23-2008 09:43:33

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

next thing we know, we'll have Al Gore saying he invented the topsoil so he knows first hand that global warming is melting it away too..

So we probably only have about 15 years of topsoil left on earth.

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Red Dave

01-23-2008 09:31:02

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

Just another academic making "the sky is falling" predictions in order to line up government grants to study the "problem".

But hey, it's a living for them.

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Rob in Indiana

01-23-2008 09:20:43

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

same old same old. I read this same stuff 30yrs ago in school.

thers alway room for inprovement but around my area some guys like to plow just cause they grew up doing so and find it enjoyable.

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tork rench

01-23-2008 09:17:58

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

Well,I think crop rotation will help hay to corn etc.any way where I live they cut down at least 150 trees flattend at least 50acres of grass slopes for parking lots and created a nice big fat run off mess for a strip mall that has been failing from the get go and has been bought and sold in less than a year.

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jayinNY

01-23-2008 09:04:29

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

And what are chemicals made out of? PETROLEUM.

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Eddie MO

01-23-2008 09:03:24

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

The guy is correct. You guys would be better off if you listened to someone like him. Like it or not, he is right on. You can't keep trying to squeeze every last bit of production out of the land year after year and think it will keep going.

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paul

01-23-2008 15:50:20

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to Eddie MO, 01-23-2008 09:03:24

Clay soil here is 123 feet deep, then you find the 'natural' topsoil we had, complete with twigs & grass. Sorry Canada, I guss that used to belong to you...) So, we have a few 100 centuries to go. :)

Good soil stewardship is naturally a good thing. What bothers me more is the manure issues mentioned in this thread - manure is a good soil fertilizer, & should be used as such. Don't know anyone around here who diesn't use it to raise crops. Need to. Should. My state pretty much demands it, as well. What's up with the rest of you?

--->Paul

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730virgil

01-23-2008 08:59:04

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

why didn't that smart guy say anything about the way shopping malls, houses and streets are being built all over the place. if the devlopment keeps up there won't be any top[ soil to be found. every year here in northren il we see more and more farms being ruined for pure greed. i can't see how no-till is an answer either. it takes lot more chemicals to get rid of weeds. how much diesel for tractor for pulling sprayers across fields. some of these weeds will be stopped before they start with some tillage. it seems people have forgot about contour strips waterways, and terraces.

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RobMD

01-23-2008 08:58:58

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

Hmm, I"ll buy the Geologist a beer if he would lighten up a little.

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rrlund

01-23-2008 08:43:10

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

Kind of makes you think we'd be better off if we'd compost all the tree huggers and return them to the earth. If they really believed what they preach,you'd think they'd volunteer.

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Allan In NE

01-23-2008 08:28:12

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to SheldonS, 01-23-2008 08:14:40

I'm more than willing to supply the room if someone else will jump in and handle the expense of padding it.

Allan

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730virgil

01-23-2008 09:34:10

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to Allan In NE, 01-23-2008 08:28:12

well we could start with al gore, john edwards and john kerry.

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730virgil

01-23-2008 09:29:14

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to Allan In NE, 01-23-2008 08:28:12

i've got a few piles of that stuff that comes out back end of the bull. think that will make a little padding?

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Bill in IL

01-23-2008 09:27:26

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to Allan In NE, 01-23-2008 08:28:12

I've got a pitchfork and a strong back.

Think they will scream when you fork them?

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migraine

01-23-2008 09:48:41

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Re: We're running out of dirt? in reply to Bill in IL, 01-23-2008 09:27:26

I have a large pto driven chipper shreader that has scattered anything and everything that I have put into it. Would let it out for this project for free, but you have to put the fuel in the tractor. Migraine

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