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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

economy

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756puller

01-14-2008 17:26:17




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Hey just what is everybodies theory on what is going on with the current ag markets?




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higgins

01-15-2008 10:48:03




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 Re: economy in reply to 756puller, 01-14-2008 17:26:17  
The profit leeches are skittish about jumping into the unknown of the alcohol production scene. Alcohol fuel is having 2 main effects: mpg goes down quite a bit over gas and diesel and more worrisome - it will take over a quarter of corn (and har har switchgrass)production to supply it. That will even further increase the demand for corn and as Allen said...there are a lot of hungry mouths out there.

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Bill in IL

01-15-2008 09:35:24




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 Re: economy in reply to 756puller, 01-14-2008 17:26:17  
Cattle markets are going to pot. I don't know what the heck I am going to do with the feeders I have.
Guess we are going to eat well.

Father in law is tickled cause he has lots of grain in the bin to still sell.
Something has to happen cause the farm markets sure are all out of balance.



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Walt Davies

01-15-2008 09:02:10




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 Re: economy in reply to 756puller, 01-14-2008 17:26:17  
Ain't it funny how the Economy right before an election is always in the dumps and right after the election when the other party takes over everything is rosy. Even without any change in the system.
Walt



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TomTex

01-15-2008 05:57:42




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 Re: economy in reply to 756puller, 01-14-2008 17:26:17  
Why is anyone surprized? Our nation has been deficit spending for 6 years at record rates. Went to war without funding it. Try doing your own budget with an ever increasing amount of the revenue raised going JUST TO FINANCE the ever increasing debt. Ever larger portions of our tax dollars are paid in to run the country, but are used to pay interest on our 6-year spending/warring spree. And who does that interest go to - - foreign governments, who sit back and rake in interest money (our taxes). Last figures I saw are out of date, but I seem to remember it was over 25 cents of every tax dollar is used to finance the interest on debt on 6-years of over spending. No matter who is elected president, taxes will HAVE to go up, because the interest is piling up. To make matters worse, we have to pay for 30-50 million folks here that are criminal aliens. Public hosptial in Fort Worth Texas is losing over 8 Million Dollars per year on their health care, which comes directly out of taxes. Brother worked with one of them, who had purchased 3 social security cards, 3 state driver licenses and worked 3 jobs. Kept each job below the tax paying amounts to get 3 tax refunds. Qualified for low cost govt housing, had kids in public school at our tax expense, where we hired extra teachers to speak Spanish.
Surprize, Surprize, we are broke.
Tom

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Verniee

01-15-2008 07:19:27




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 Re: economy in reply to TomTex, 01-15-2008 05:57:42  
A. You are very ignorant about this " warring spree".

B. Raising taxes reduces revenues.

C. Tell your local government to stop paying for ANY services for the illegals and enforce the laws that are already in place concerning them.



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Tradititonal Farmer

01-15-2008 03:43:13




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 Re: economy in reply to 756puller, 01-14-2008 17:26:17  
According to the Comtroller General Of the US the outlook isn't too good.He says as a country we are bankrupt.Face it the citizens of the US as a group has overspent,over indulged,over built huge houses and overwarred on borrowed money both public and private while producing not a whole lot of anything of real value.Americans are not meeting their mortages and credit card debt at a record rate.The gov't goes into debt at the rate of 2 million bucks an hour.While things like worker protection (OSHA), enviromental protection (EPA)welfare,food stamps,Medicare etc etc may be
"good things" they all carry a price tag and unfortunately for us other countries like China care little about these things and are beating our butts in manufacturing and now hold billions of our US dollars and our banks go begging to them and the oil countries for loans to survive.How CAN it keep going as it has for us here in the US? It cannot in my opinion.An economic 'correction' as its called is coming how painful is anyone's guess at this time.

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RayP(MI)

01-15-2008 02:42:40




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 Re: economy in reply to 756puller, 01-14-2008 17:26:17  
According to the pundents, the country is doing fine, employment is good -etc. There are a number of indications that have me scared however: instability in the housing market, high prices for commodities due to pressure for bio fuels, oil prices thru the roof, China's competition, scrap metal prices... There are a whole lot of instability factors. This house of cards is shaky at best.

Then there's Michigan. A one state recession, digging ever deeper. We may never see good times here in my lifetime!

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Spook

01-15-2008 03:41:20




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 Re: economy in reply to RayP(MI), 01-15-2008 02:42:40  
I think for us michiganders, it is going to be a long time. I think the best example of our problem was when Electrolux shut down the compressor plant in Greenville. The state offered to build Electrolux a brand new factory, for free! The workers agreed to take pay cuts - and they were only making 13 - 15 per hour anyway. Electrolux went to mexico, wages of $2 per hour were just to cheap to pass up. If you are in ANY manufacturing business, your job is at risk.

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Tradititonal Farmer

01-15-2008 03:48:46




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 Re: economy in reply to Spook, 01-15-2008 03:41:20  
Not to hammer Michigan but why would a company that wants stay in the US locate there now with their high taxes and pro union laws when they can locate in a southern US state with low taxes and Right to Work laws?



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Spook

01-15-2008 05:36:41




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 Re: economy in reply to Tradititonal Farmer, 01-15-2008 03:48:46  
You might have some good points. But I don't see that happening anymore - non union, right to work, you can't compete with $2 labor or even less in China or the far east. Btw, less than 15% of our workforce is union. But I think the die is cast - those jobs are going and they ain't coming back.



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35A

01-14-2008 22:07:50




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 Re: economy in reply to 756puller, 01-14-2008 17:26:17  
Man, I just don't understand the money jargon. I've got 10 dollars in my pocket, 5 cows, enough feed for the winter and 2 5 gallon cans of gas for the tractors. I never made enough money to participate in the economy before I retired, and never will now. Nothing one can do but stand back and watch. Hope they don't suck the life out of us any more than they have already



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rrlund

01-15-2008 07:10:32




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 Re: economy in reply to 35A, 01-14-2008 22:07:50  
Move over,I'm coming to join ya!



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kyhayman

01-14-2008 19:48:03




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 Re: economy in reply to 756puller, 01-14-2008 17:26:17  
I see a bubble itching to expand just a little more than then burst. Agriculture is like every other business model. I've heard my whole life the rules have changed. Land prices in the 70's, corn in the 80s, dot com in the 90's, and housing this past year.

Corn is driving beans, and oil is driving corn. Steel is driving oil. The house is crumbling at its foundation though. Milk has already peaked, hogs are imploding, and I cant see cattle holding much long with the amount of red ink the feedlots are swimming in. Particularly with loads of cheap pork on the market.

If the livestock complex collapes then crops and oil are the main games in town. The dollars fall has put at least 30 dollars on the price of oil. The war premium and concern over conflicts in the middle east and north africa at least another 25. Doesnt matter who wins the election, the people want the troops home so expect peace to break out next year. Add that to a recession, and a real one at that and watch the oil complex unravel. After all no trader wants to own 94 dollar oil when the price drops to 70. I read today that in December the economy didnt just slow down, it contracted.

Looks like a repeat of the 70's to me. Doesnt matter if its Russia or ethanol driving corn prices. More similarities, radical run up in land prices as the twin forces of an inflation hedge and rising crop prices drive that market. Recession plus high energy equals stagflation where the economy isnt growing but inflation is. Banks throwing money around (its coming, the fed is auctioning money now since no one wants to come buy it). A couple of years, at most and the house of cards starts to collapse. I see cattle next, then milk. When milk gets back under 14 dollars all those dairy cows start hitting the kill market just when beef expansion takes off.

Finally, the fed is faced with no choice but raise rates. The inflationary component is worse than the stagnation (repeat of the early 80's). The ag markets and land markets collapse. Oil drops like a stone. Then we see an economic turn around.

When the experts start saying a business cycle has changed, run.

A wise man once wrote "there is nothing new under the sun".

I started farming in the early 80's. There were 100 kids in FFA my freshman year, almost all from small family farms. By 1984, we had gone from 475 dairy farms to 26. By my junior year we had 28. I bought my farm in 1987, for 1000 an acre and it had been on the market for a year. It had been worth 3 times that 6 years before.

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rrlund

01-14-2008 18:45:30




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 Re: economy in reply to 756puller, 01-14-2008 17:26:17  
A lot of what's going on right now is hedge funds diversifying in to the commodities market combined with the markets trying to "buy acres" before planting. In other words,bean market trying to be sure enough beans are planted to meet demmand,corn market doing the same thing. I wish the cash market for fat cattle would wake up and do the same pretty darned soon. August on out futures look good,but nearbys are pretty soft.

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Weldon K

01-14-2008 18:24:38




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 Re: economy in reply to 756puller, 01-14-2008 17:26:17  

Read this.



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RobMD

01-14-2008 18:23:57




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 Re: economy in reply to 756puller, 01-14-2008 17:26:17  
People build houses on farmland, then complain that food prices are too high.

The pursuit of deathanol has driven up agricultural land prices. Not only that, the government makes deathanol look attractive, so now every farmer around here grows corn.



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Paul from MI

01-14-2008 18:22:28




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 Re: economy in reply to 756puller, 01-14-2008 17:26:17  
Demand for bio fuels and more uses for corn and soybeans tipped the scales. Shows how fragile the worlds supply of food really is. IMHO
Paul



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Allan In NE

01-14-2008 17:49:20




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 Re: economy in reply to 756puller, 01-14-2008 17:26:17  
World is over populated and it is running out of food.

Allan



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Dave from MN

01-14-2008 18:26:21




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 Re: economy in reply to Allan In NE, 01-14-2008 17:49:20  
Lack of small farms in the US, greed, overall poor saving and spoending habits of the US, loss of manufacturing all over the US.



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Dave from MN

01-14-2008 18:35:43




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 Re: economy in reply to Dave from MN, 01-14-2008 18:26:21  
Sorry, I was a bit off for the Ag economy. The greed part of my reply was for corporate america, you know the guys that get $500,000 bomus , on a bad year. I am glad farmers are finally making some money. I am unhappy that the benifits are being raped away with fuel, spray, and fertilizer costs. I am also unhappy that 20 years after all them family farms are now 10 acre horse "ranchettes", and their land is owned or operated by a mega farmer.

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Larry NE IL

01-14-2008 20:03:07




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 Re: economy in reply to Dave from MN, 01-14-2008 18:35:43  
Well...., this sure has given me a rosy outlook!, I think I'll put my jammies on and get a good night sleep before the sky starts falling!
Larry NE IL:)



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