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OT-Underground electric

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Triplerange

01-04-2008 07:41:32




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Anybody replacing overhead electric lines with underground lines on the farmstead. I am working on putting together a grain handling setup and was thinking this was the way to go for wiring electic motors, dryer controls, main panels and such. You guys got any thoughts?
I have access to some surveying equipment and surveying knowledge so I could do my own asbuilts for future reference.




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paul

01-04-2008 20:17:00




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 07:41:32  
Absoutly. I spent $11,000 rewiring the farm a couple years ago, mostly just the backbone & a few main boxes. Worth it tho.

For a grain setup do you need 200 or 400 amps? Going to be a thick wire, don't skimp. An electrician should set this all up for you, sometimes you can find one that allows you to do some grunt work & then he does the finish of it. A lot of details on grounding & depth and bonding aluminumn to copper, etc., you need to please your electrical inspector, the electrician will avoid mistakes & might save you money.....

Triple aluminumn direct burrial wire is likely the way to go. It will be very thick - but far cheaper than copper. 4" trencher, go 2 feet deep (or whatever local needs) and should be good to go.

--->Paul

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Eric SEI

01-04-2008 19:32:56




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 07:41:32  
Almost every time we hear of a electrical death on a farm it involves an auger and overhead wires. With augers getting longer and combines getting taller, underground is the only way to go.

And remember to keep that wire out of sight or some scum driving past may decide he has found more to sell as scrap.



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Clint Youse MO

01-04-2008 17:08:39




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 07:41:32  
We did My parents entire farm stead in underground REA gave us the cable to the meter we had to pay to trench it then I trenched the restof it 2 ft deep to house Shop and cattle barn they got about ten foot of overhead from a cattle barn to a grainbin. My farm has both everything that is live around the bins is underground then all other is overhead would like to get it buried but that is not on top of priority list at this point lot of other stuff to pay for first.

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Triplerange

01-04-2008 13:23:16




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 07:41:32  
Thanks for the replies guys...I took note of all said advice.



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TomH in PA

01-04-2008 11:52:54




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 07:41:32  
Check your local building and/or electric code. Usually if you bury it less than three feet you need conduit to protect the wire from freezing movement and someone with a shovel. Deeper than that it's not required. Always use underground feed (UF)wire, it's completely waterproof.



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rrlund

01-04-2008 10:42:02




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 07:41:32  
I have underground to the garage,shop,barn and tool shed. The only advice I can give is be sure to put it in conduit.It'll be a whole lot easier to repair if something goes wrong.



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johnand cindy

01-04-2008 10:22:50




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 07:41:32  
Underground ? What voltage This determins the depth. Use pipe not direct burial No more than 360 deg. of bends in pipe without pull point. Consult with local electrician that does farm work he can best advise you. As in other post sand around pipe and electricial hazard tape on top of sand before backfill NO ROCKS. Follow NEC to the letter, permits etc. Insurance companys love not to pay when a problem happens. My 2 cents, John

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kyhayman

01-04-2008 10:17:00




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 07:41:32  
I've got all buried electric, wouldnt have it any other way. Used #2 copper direct burial cable with it in conduit at each traffic point.



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Howard H.

01-04-2008 09:49:37




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 07:41:32  

Our main internal debate out on the farm when laying buried wire for 3 phase 480 volt sprinkler systems is whether to put it in conduit or not.

If conduit ever gets water in it, it will never dry out, but we had one place with direct buried that had had the line chewed up by gophers...

On our new lines, we've been putting it in conduit, but cutting small drain holes on the bottom of the lowest lying pipe and trying to put it on a sandy or coarse gravel bed for drainage...

Also, with conduit (at least on shorter runs), you can pull the cable out and replace it a lot easier...

Howard

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msb

01-04-2008 08:13:41




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 07:41:32  
Grain system ? No question---underground.Your building inspector will probably demand it be buried. Also check with your power company. Mine put the existing service underground at no charge. Just mention that an auger will be used.



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Ken Macfarlane

01-04-2008 08:01:07




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 07:41:32  
Price some wire these days, they put the price of aluminum up too just cause copper is up.

I put a bit of underground in for my shop, the smallest MCM size I think, anyways, what a pain, the electrician was pickier than the inspector. It was direct burial rated armoured / tech cable since the gray PVC conduit had gone up 6 fold in price from my first estimate. He wanted 5 feet deep, foot of graded sand in all directions around it, warning tape 2 feet above that.

Originally he wanted concrete poured around it!!!!! !!! I asked why and he said well in case a backhoe was digging there. I said I'd be pissed if a backhoe was digging my yard up for no reason.

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Triplerange

01-04-2008 08:24:32




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 01-04-2008 08:01:07  
Jeez, sounds like the guy wanted you to spend as much as the government to put in that service. I was thinking more like 1 to 2' below grade.



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jdemaris

01-04-2008 08:24:02




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 01-04-2008 08:01:07  
From what I've read, aluminum ore - i.e. bauxite is getting in short supply and expensive to mine. So, some of the price hikes refect reality.

I put in an underground 220 VAC 100 amp service to connect my solar electric to my house six months ago. Using aluminum URD cable was almost half the price of using copper even though the aluminum needs to be larger gauge. The PVC conduit wasn't an issue at all, it was cheap.

Buried cable can't carry the same amps as free air, but most services up to 200 amps are not a big problem. In my area now, almost all household services are underground now.
I've seen many that run over 1000 feet, but those are high-voltage with a step-down transformer.

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deano

01-04-2008 08:00:15




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 07:41:32  
Both methods have plus"s and minus"s. Overhead is subject to weather and physical abuse but easy to replace if something goes bad. Underground is hard to damage if done right but can be a bear to fix if bad things happen. Personally, I opted to go underground in conduit if a wire gives out in the future we"ll deal with it. For a grain setup I would think it the best way too. You can always have a spare pipe or two run to the bins from the panels, won"t cost a whole lot more now and can save a bunch of work later.

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IaGary

01-04-2008 07:54:33




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 07:41:32  
Don't know your set up but once you get the power to the set up I would think that most all would be run in conduit above ground from bin to bin and to dryer and so on.

But if it is spread out a little you may want to go ungerground for say the dryer or bins to the contol panel.

The main service line would most likly be best coming in underground.

Are you doing it yourself? If not your electrician will do it the best way.

Gary

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Triplerange

01-04-2008 08:22:06




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to IaGary, 01-04-2008 07:54:33  
yeah, probably do it myself. I keep having unfortunate incidents involing overhead lines and cables, Plus Like the guy above said...that silly auger has had a few close calls. Can we place regular overhead lines in conduit below ground?



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paul

01-04-2008 20:19:19




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 08:22:06  
No.

I'd look into an electrician, just from what you said here..... Bet he ends up saving you money, aside from getting it safer.

Be careful.

--->Paul



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Brett In KS

01-04-2008 16:32:16




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 08:22:06  
Most overhead wire is called triplex. Most underground direct buried wire is what we call URD Cable. It's twisted together just like the triplex, but the grounded conductor (neutral) is insulated.

Brett



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IaGary

01-04-2008 11:39:55




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 08:22:06  
No, even if it is in conduit underground, it still has to be underground wire.

Gary



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Gerald J.

01-04-2008 09:21:45




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 Re: OT-Underground electric in reply to Triplerange, 01-04-2008 08:22:06  
By using direct burial wire, any overhead circuit can be buried. Then there's no conflict with augers.

I've investigated and testified on numerous auger to power line contacts, mostly for widows. 7200 kills rapidly, sometimes explosivly.

Gerald J.



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