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Question for the Dairy Farmers

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JoshuaGA

01-01-2008 15:16:31




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Okay, I'm toying with the idea of starting up a small dairy (App. 60 Head) and bottling my own milk on farm. What I would like to know is what yalls experiences with dairying and if you would reccomend this or if I should keep thinking. I'm planning to visit a few local daries over the spring and summer but want to hear your opinions too. Thank You. God Bless.

JoshuaGA




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barnrat

02-03-2008 10:06:43




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
I"ve been farming on my own now for 8 years. I started my 50 cow dairy from scratch. I"m 31 now and probably don"t know as much as the rest of the posters below but I do know You have to be a good cow man and a really good business man. Times have been tight from time to time here but, I make a decent living and have time off and I don"t think I work too hard doing it. The below posters and their complaints don"t seem to make any sense. If you feel you"ve got the business sense then go for it. Dairy farming has changed allot in the past 50 years heck even the past 5 years. You need to keep in mind your running a business so staying on top of your game is of great importance.

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New York Dairy

01-02-2008 10:24:07




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
I've wanted to sell the cows for several years, but with $20+ milk, the money I'm making now is just phenomenal.



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Mike (WA)

01-02-2008 08:35:28




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
I grew up on a 35 cow dairy, we sold the cows when I was 13. I had already seen enough to know I didn't want to do it myself. Best indicator of the advisability of it is some neighbors of mine- father and son, both with wives who are supportive. Good farmers- got into it by getting into the holstein heifer business in a bigger and bigger way, building their own facilities as they went, until they stopped selling springers and started milking them. Got up to about 150 cows with very little debt, raised their own feed, etc. They milked for about 15 years, and just recently sold the herd. I asked Sr. if he would do it again, in hindsight- He said, probably not. He couldn't fault their method of getting started, and said they always made a living (sometimes a pretty skinny "living"), but with long hours, and at the mercy of the markets. But they weren't really making any financial progress, and they were both getting just plain TIRED. Every time they got a little ahead, some more machinery would need replacing, and there goes the nest egg. Best leave it to the mega-dairies, I think.

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rrlund

01-02-2008 07:05:42




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
I milked cows for 33 years. Sold them 4 years ago. I remember a neighbor telling me years ago that nobody over 50 had any business milking cows. I kind of laughed to myself. Thought I'd die of old age milking cows. Trouble is,I didn't know you could die of old age at 51. It'll make an old man of you in a hurry. Not just the physical demand,but the demand on you're personal life and especially what it does to you mentally after so many years. I KNOW I had some kind of a breakdown one time,but I had to just keep working through it. I lost the ability to feel or to care about anything. That was a good dozen years ago. Four years now after the cows are gone,I still haven't recovered all the way,but I'm coming around. Those cows honestly did real damage to me. I'll be the first to tell you I'm brain damaged. I have an auction sale bill here somewhere that says "after 20 years of milking cows we have decided to return to a normal life". If you can find some other way to make a living farming without milking cows,DO IT. Run screaming from milking cows before you end up in a rubber room.

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Vito

01-02-2008 05:56:33




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
They idea is romantic but the reallity is brutual.Both economically and physically.Most small dairies in CT are closing and the large family operations are having a rough time.My father work in the dairy business when I was young and we used to go to the barn to kiss him good night,he was milking.He worked himself into the ground and was happy to get away from it.If you have workaholic tendencies you might survive.I have toyed with the idea myself but don't want to invest in something that would become a hobby.Lot's of work but no income.Run a cow/calf operation it"s easier proably more profitable and a more controlled start up .That's the way I see it.
Vito

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Jack a

01-02-2008 03:51:34




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
Besides the tremendous work involved, the ag policies of the past 25 or 30 years have made it nearly impossible to break into dairy farming and making it. Nearly all of farming has gone that way and every new farm bill has made it worse than before. The best you can do is hobby farm a few steers and a few acres of hay while keeping a good job. There are always people trying to introduce laws to make it impossible to even do that. BTW it ain't always environmental wackos who promote these laws. Here MN it the likes of Durst Dairy. They have publicly stated that 160 acres is too small and shouldn't be allowed permits to farm or receive government payments (I was at that meeting) . Full time farming will only be a life of struggle for the average Joe these days. Large corporate farms have taken over my area. They move in and always offer more rent for land than you can. The large government payments keep them afloat and will leave you behind. The only full-time small farmers I know of keep going only because they inherited the farm from their folks. When their equipment wears out and the prices fall back down they too will thin out and have been thinning out. The years I farmed and the years growing up on a dairy farm were some of the best I ever lived but once you're out you're out and getting back in is nearly impossible so for you to attempt it without a dairy background as an additional handicap, well, good luck.

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MarkB_MI

01-02-2008 03:07:09




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
I have no experience myself in dairy farming, but I've known a number or dairymen. I cannot think of a more brutal occupation, particularly to do on a small scale. Former dairy farmers tell me that leaving the dairy business was like getting out of jail. Those cows have to be milked twice a day. Unless you can find a reliable helper, you will plan your life around those milkings: No overnight trips. No evenings out on the town. No sleeping in in the morning if you don't feel well.

Are you married? You will certainly need a partner on this venture, and not many girls today are interested in living the life of a dairy farmer. They might find the IDEA romantic, but the REALITY is a whole 'nother thing.

Good luck.

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supergrumpy

01-02-2008 05:43:11




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to MarkB_MI, 01-02-2008 03:07:09  
AMEN



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massey333

01-02-2008 06:26:12




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to supergrumpy, 01-02-2008 05:43:11  
No one has said anything about having to compete with the Dutch funded family dairies with their 1000 to 5000 head herds.



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Hoofer B

01-01-2008 19:20:09




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
I could write a book on this, but I will skip directly to the summary. If you have no dairy experience, you will fail.



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JoshuaGA

01-01-2008 19:12:43




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to cj in wisconsin, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
Glad I asked.third party image. Concensus(?) is I'm crazy or I want to work myself to death. Thanks for the comments anyway.

JoshuaGA

P.S. This is our neighbor in the next county. Sparkman's Cream Valley Milk

www.sparkmanscreamvalley.com



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j meyer

01-01-2008 18:37:34




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
I grew up on a 4th generation dairy farm, and we sold those cows in 2003. There were good points to it, but in the end, its best we got out of it. We milked a whopping 35-40 cows, and our barn and equipment were shot, let alone dad's body. He had his second hip replaced yesterday(he's only 58). I (and he) loved the life style, but the long hours, lack of pay would be hard. My future father-in-law continues to milk. He's stuggling like crazy to keep it going, and his body is shot as well. Basically your looking to join an industry that few want a part of anymore. Unless you got a ton of money, or your family is it, its not the job for you. Sorry I cant paint a better picture for you, but thats the way it is.

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j meyer

01-01-2008 18:36:36




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
I grew up on a 4th generation dairy farm, and we sold those cows in 2003. There were good points to it, but in the end, its best we got out of it. We milked a whopping 35-40 cows, and our barn and equipment we shot, let alone dad's body. He had his second hip replaced yesterday(he's only 58). I loved the life style, but the long hours, lack of pay would be hard. My future father-in-law continues to milk. He's stuggling like crazy to keep it going, and his body is shot as well. Basically your looking to join an industry that few want a part of anymore. Unless you got a ton of money, or your family is it, its not the job for you. Sorry I cant paint a better picture for you, but thats the way it is.

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david b. guest

01-01-2008 18:30:40




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
Hey, what is done in Mich. is called "cowshares" You sell these to people and they take the milk.



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john in la

01-01-2008 17:52:57




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
Coming from a dairy background I got to agree with the others. You need to share some of that stuff you have been smoking.

Really though if I were to consider a dairy I would think one of two ways. Very mega size; that is imposiable for most of us; or very small.

If you live in the right state you could start with 2 or 3 cows and sell your milk bottled as fresh raw milk. Problem is you do not live in the right state.


Georgia The state has banned the sale of raw milk for human consumption through its interpretation of the Georgia Dairy Act of 1980 and also through its adoption of the 2003 version of the Pasteurized Milk Ordinance.

The sale of raw milk for animal consumption is legal if the distributor is licensed under the commercial feed laws. The Department of Agriculture currently has several distributors of raw goat milk for pet food under license.


The other option you have is to work at a local dairy. Some older guys will allow you to bring in XX of your own cows. You do all the labor and the owner pays all the bills for all cows. Your pay is the milk check for your cows milk.
The only cost you have by doing this is the cows.

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RichZ

01-01-2008 17:52:35




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
My wife and I own a goat dairy, same concept, just most of the equipment is scaled down. There's money in what you're thinking of, but there's a HUGE investment to start up. Besides the cows, which everyone has had good comments about, you need to think about the equipment for the dairy.

First you'll need a milking parlor and bulk tank room. Here in New York State, there are very specific requirements for your milking parlor and bulk tank room. Each room most have a floor drain connected to a septic system, the floor must be sealed and non-porous, the walls and ceilings must be easily cleanable. You'll need the bulk tank itself, a pipeline, milk pump, automatic cleaning equipment, and a bunch more equipment. It is all very expensive. Everything must be stainless steel. I think all states have similar regulations.

IF you can afford the investment, there's money to be made in what you're thinking of. I think the suggestion of working on a dairy farm is an excellent one. If you have no experience with livestock, you really can't afford to experiment with very valuable animals.

I'm not trying to discourage you, on the contrary, I hope you do it. But you need to know, it's a tremendous investment.

Good luck!!!!

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bradk

01-01-2008 17:47:28




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
As long as you keep "toying with the idea" and don't actually persue it,you'll be fine.



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Mark FL

01-01-2008 17:40:59




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
I grew up on a dairy farm in WI and farmed for 10 years with my parents. The hours will be very long, probably 70 hours/week. The startup cost will be very high. Talk with experienced dairymen about this and run some budget scenarios As mentioned, try to learn more about dairying by working on a dairy farm, or work for a dairy farmer who wants to retire with an agreement for you to buy into the operation. You will have to be very good with cows.

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kyhayman

01-01-2008 17:38:56




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
I'm in an area where there are several small dairies, and several start ups. Is it tough, you bet, is it expensive, absolutely. Are they making money? Some are and some arent.

What I've observed from the people who are making it is they put their money in cows. Everything else is low cost and as they can afford it but high quality cows are the turn key. Equipment, mostly 60s and 70'stuff (except round balers and skid loaders, silage balers are the norm and the skid steers typically run daily so its better to get good quality). Land, too expensive to own. The more successful ones have 80-100 acre farms where they milk and grow silage corn. All of them get their hay on shares harvesting somewhere else.

The ones that look like they will make it challenge feed. As long as production increases they increase feed for those cows. The ones who wont are shorting the cows on groceries, hay/silage/and concentrate.

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IOfarmerWA

01-01-2008 17:23:02




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
Well I see we have a bunch of real optomistic dairy farmers here.

This can be done! It will take a lot of MONEY and WORK!
There are many ways to start. Don gave good ideas. Buying calves would tie you $$ up the longest before you turned a profit errrr had any income. And you will have death loss and a chance at a dud in the milking string.
If it were me I'd go work on a dairy. Get your animal husbandry skills built up, after all the cows do make the money. Then rent a farm or work into a retiring farm. If renting facilities you will need to buy heifers. Springers are fetching $1900-2000+ a pop. I would also rotational graze. Low in put, low output system, but yeilds more per cow. Buy in dry hay for winter.

Scratch bottling...way to expensive

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meadedairy

01-01-2008 17:16:27




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
Been milking for 15 years dad has been here since '69. Dry startup half a mill, 1st calf heifers 1,200 to 1,800 bucks depending. dairy feed 4,000 a load a month. mastitis and medicine 800 a month thats with no vet bill. general operation 1,000 to 2,000 a month 3:00am get up 10:00 pm go to bed. better get a extra job at the local grocery mart for a hobby.



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phillip d

01-01-2008 17:15:23




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
Up here in Canada,you would need about 2 million just for the market share quota for 60 cows,new barn,,,say 500 000,60 cows,120 000.There is 2.62 million,no machinery or land yet lol.



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Dairy Farmer in WI

01-01-2008 16:41:03




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
what i did was i had beef befor i bought my milkers. i sold some beef now and then and got good land and crops going before i bought the cows. bought all or most of my machinery before i bought dairy cows. still have some money issues but at least i don't have to buy feed. try to avoid cows that come from local markets. my experiences with buying from the local sale barn is that they are mostlikely sick and/ or don't produce much. i bought all my cows from a retireing (SP? :( ) farmer. most were good but i sold some so so cows and since brought some of my first born heifers in fer milkin' now.
or you could by real young heifers and raise them up and breed them and such.
there are many different ways of going at this. just choose the one that fits your budget. just whatever you do' i would suggest no having a bull for breeeding. they are very tempermental. they also make these neat heat detectors that are scratchoffs so when a cow is in heat, and the other cows are riding, you can tell
good luck
DF in WI

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Allan In NE

01-01-2008 16:33:02




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
Josh,

Believe me, you don't know what works is until you dive into that game and I agree with the other poster.

Buy in fee is gonna run somewhere around half a rock. Just the heavy springers alone will make your ears bleed and that's just the beginning.

Allan



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tractormiallis

01-01-2008 16:27:25




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
No one is getting into dairying. It takes way too much time and the cost. You would be better to do a cash crop hobby farm and you would make more plus have your time left, and maybe raise a few beef cattle. Throw the dairy idea out with the manure.



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Hugh MacKay

01-01-2008 16:17:59




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
Joshua: From a finincial point of view, you have about as much chance of survival as a snowball in Porta Ricco.



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Jimmy King

01-01-2008 16:03:18




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
I am also a former dairyman, I milked about 60 or 70 cows. That in itself is a 18hr per day job for 1 person. don"t have a clue now what the cost to set up would be just a guess 1/2 million. Bottling would cost much more plus much more labor. Then there is the delivery thing more cost and labor. If you have a good job keep it.



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Gene Davis (Ga.)

01-01-2008 16:26:12




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to Jimmy King, 01-01-2008 16:03:18  
No body mentioned all the hoops that he would have to jump through to deal with the USDA regulations concerning bottling and the related stuff called government red tape.



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former dairyman

01-01-2008 15:53:53




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 Re: Question for the Dairy Farmers in reply to JoshuaGA, 01-01-2008 15:16:31  
I think you are crazy



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Hugh MacKay

01-01-2008 16:14:39




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 Re: From another former dariyman in reply to former dairyman, 01-01-2008 15:53:53  
I think he should be put in a cage, before he spreads.



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