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The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic

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Blue3992 (N Ill

12-31-2007 08:56:20




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Great article in this month's National Geographic about the population decline in North Dakota.

Great pictures, too. Be sure to click on "photo gallery" on the left hand side of the screen.

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MarkB_MI

01-01-2008 02:16:49




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Blue3992 (N Illinois), 12-31-2007 08:56:20  
That was an interesting article. I recdommend the book "The Worst Hard Time" by Timothy Egan, which describes the dust bowl. One of the key things that led up to the dust bowl was the belief that a family could make a living off 160 acres of western prarie. That, combined with historically high grain prices after the first World War, led to the farming practices that eventually destroyed much of the plains.

Many years ago, I would regularly make the drive down US 385 through Lamar and Springfield, CO. Anyone who has been through there can attest that this is some of the most sparsely populated country east of the Rockies. What I never new until I read Worst Hard Time is that in the early 20th century there were a lot of people living there. Those people left when the dust bowl came, and never returned.

Many people think the depopulation of the Great Plains is a recent phenomenom, it's not. It's been going on for 80 years, and it's going to continue.

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Scott in SF

12-31-2007 21:31:23




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Blue3992 (N Illinois), 12-31-2007 08:56:20  
When I graduated from the University of North Dakota in 1986 I couldn't get a job at McDonalds. The oil patch was dead, the coal mine in Gascoyne was shut down and ag was in dire straights (does anyone remember Gordan Kahl and Possie?) . A quick inventory of the family assets and the number of brothers and cousins I had that were not going anywhere indicated to me my future was someplace else. I had relatives in San Francisco and Boston that said I could come live with them. I took my final, final test and outside of Gamble Hall I flipped a coin, California won. I drove west and have no regrets, but I missed SW North Dakota and visited every chance I had. Meanwhile the career went well and in my spare time I bought and fixed up wrecked houses around the bay area. Bought the first farm in Adams County ND 5 years ago and second last year. Now I am rebuilding one of those 100 +year old farm houses with falling down plaster. Working in San Francisco I meet people from everwhere (honestly everywhere), and it is always the North Dakotans that are most fond of where they came from. The plains are constantly changing, always have. Where I hunt ducks one year I may hunt pheasants the next. ND is changing and getting better all the time. The oppertunities for young people are far better than when I was a young person. I also have to queation if it gets any colder anywhere in ND than in say International Falls MN or Haver MT.

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jakee

12-31-2007 16:35:22




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Blue3992 (N Illinois), 12-31-2007 08:56:20  
having been raised on the n.dak prairie the south west corner in emmons county i look forward to reading the artical, there are many pictures in the flickr colume on the great decline of the farmers from that area.we were in the transision years late 40,s early 50,s when many farmers were moving from horses and threshing machines to combines we were one of the first farmes with our owen power plant and indoor plumbing,that would have been about 1949 when dad finesed those jobs. we did all our haying with horses.the little town i was from braddock had a population of over 300 at one time and now has only about 30 pepole in it, o yea the old harvester dealer is still open but only repares things now, we moved away in 1954 after dad dies and a older brother,it was to mutch for my mother to handle so we came east to michigan were all the jobs were booming in the mid 50,s we like most every one else worked in the auto plants. now they are also in big trouble,i get back to funerals and weddings, still cant get over the vastnes of the place. never could get over the farm i live in on the edge of detroit and most times you will still see a old Farmall H or M in my driveway, god i even had a 715 combine in the neoiborhood for a while till the peploe bitched about it.yes the hi school and the church are all closed in that little town way back there on the prarie,

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jdemaris

12-31-2007 15:03:20




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Blue3992 (N Illinois), 12-31-2007 08:56:20  
I read it. But - not everybody back then believed it was going to rain - as the story tells it.

I thought some the empty/abandoned houses looked in pretty good shape. Here in New York, with winter snows, they'd fallen down much quicker.
I don't know if we have more snow taking old roofs down, or our houses were just built worse?
My house was built in 1820 - but without help, it would of been gone many moons ago.

I kind of wish this part of New York would empty out the same way - it would be fine with me.
I woudn't mind having a few more ghost-towns around here.

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Walt Davies

12-31-2007 13:18:31




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Blue3992 (N Illinois), 12-31-2007 08:56:20  
I grew up in the Gold rush country of N.California I can tell you about hundreds of small towns that once had thousands of people living there but are just nothing now. Some have a store or a house but those are also disappearing. Small towns are not as popular as they once were because people have Auto's now and can travel to the big city to get what they want or work. When the oil runs out and we have to depend on an electric car that only goes about 50 or so miles before charge then the little towns will come back.
You can run Wally World down but it has done more for the small town than anybody else has. Walt

PS 1932 was the warmest year on record since they have recorded the weather now you want to talk Global Warming again.

I saw a great 2 hour piece last night on the History channel about good old mother earth from the beginning until several hundred thousand years in the future. It don't look real good for mankind.

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Tradititonal Farmer

12-31-2007 12:44:29




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Blue3992 (N Illinois), 12-31-2007 08:56:20  
ND is more than welcome to the folks that have moved into my area in the last 20 years



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4010guy

12-31-2007 14:21:38




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Tradititonal Farmer, 12-31-2007 12:44:29  
Tradititonal Farmer
LOL I think i know the typ your talking about, we got a few already moving up here(NW N.D.)
I keep telling some of these people that be careful what you ask for because you just might GET IT.
We have enough problems with some of our home grown NUT CASES with out importing any more.
Seems like every time a new family moves in there on food stamps and fuel assistance and what ever else.And the oil field is just begging for workers with the lowest starting wage at 23 dollars an hour so it doesnt have to be that way.

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rrlund

12-31-2007 12:27:35




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Blue3992 (N Illinois), 12-31-2007 08:56:20  
I heard Paul Harvey say recently that the economy of North Dakota was growing so fast that they were having job fairs in other states to get former residents to come home.



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Bob

12-31-2007 11:35:04




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 NOT exactly as it seems... in reply to Blue3992 (N Illinois), 12-31-2007 08:56:20  
There's LOTS of inaccuracies in that article, when you view the state as a whole.

The area covered in the article is the SW corner of the state, which has always been more sparsely populated and tenuous, with dryland ranching more common than crop farming. The eastern part, the Red River Valley, in particular is doing VERY well.

ND has actually be GAINING a (little) population, in the last few years, (albeit mainly in the eastern cities) for the first time in DECADES.

A similar article was published in the September 10, 2001 edition of Newsweek, "Death of a small Town". I am the "Bob" featured in THAT article, and, like this latest one, there was more doom and gloom than necessary. (They took a fair amount of "literary license" with the interview they did with me.)

The article probably would have recieved MORE attention and rebuttal if NOT for the events of 9-11, just one day after the cover date of that issue.

Our town is actually GAINING population lately, with a couple from California, and a number of folks from Wisconsin having moved up here for a reasonably-priced retirement. All the vacant houses available have been sold, with the exception of a couple. Maybe it's not a "boom", but seems to be a good "marriage" between folks looking for reasonable accomodations, and the survival of the town.

Link

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Bobalso

12-31-2007 12:15:47




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 Re: NOT exactly as it seems... in reply to Bob, 12-31-2007 11:35:04  
I looked to see where Corinth,ND. and Alkabo,ND are located and those towns are next to the Canadian border, not in the SW corner of the state of ND.



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centralilbaler

12-31-2007 10:34:10




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Blue3992 (N Illinois), 12-31-2007 08:56:20  
Very interesting article. It almost reminds me of whats happening in the central part of the state. Family farms and farmsteads are disappearing. The rural towns are falling apart, schools disappearing. I guess thats progress for ya



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4010guy

12-31-2007 10:25:13




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Blue3992 (N Illinois), 12-31-2007 08:56:20  
It was sometime back in the 1930s that congress enacted a farm bill called the AAA to bring relief to the farmers so they could stay on there land.
It turned out to be the best crop out there.



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Nebraska Cowman

12-31-2007 09:43:09




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Blue3992 (N Illinois), 12-31-2007 08:56:20  
Here's my take. See this pic? If I don't miss my guess both sides of the road is being farmed. There is nothing wrong with the land. What the trouble is is that everyone wants cheap food and nobody wants to work. Years ago there was a farm on every quarter section (160 ac) Now one man farms several square miles and thousands of acres and his wife works in town. It is a sad day for agriculture but it is NOT the land's fault.

third party image

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Mathias NY

12-31-2007 10:17:49




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 12-31-2007 09:43:09  
It does look like the land is being farmed, certianly it is all owned by someone. There simply isn't enough potential in the area to support a family in every house. 50 years ago it wasn't feasable for one person to farm miles and miles of farm land. Now it is.

I am facinated by abandoned buildings and there are lots of them around here too. It seems to be the normal cycle of things. The main difference around here is that people are still building new homes.

Thanks for sharing the article.

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TomH in PA

12-31-2007 09:22:12




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Blue3992 (N Illinois), 12-31-2007 08:56:20  
Th Earth's weather has always been cyclical. Early last century there were a few decades of wetter than normal years in the Midwest, so people thought they could farm that part of the country like they did back east. When it cycled back to dry we had the Dust Bowl.



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Nebraska Cowman

12-31-2007 09:50:48




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to TomH in PA, 12-31-2007 09:22:12  
Sure it was dry in the "dust bowl" years. But from talking to some old timers I don't think any dryer than some we have seen since. The problem in the 30s people were trying to work the land with Eastern tillage practices. It left the land open to wind erosion. When one crop failed they would break up some more ground next to it and pretty soon the whole country was laid bare. Now we know enough to leave the crop residue on top to conserve what precious moisture we get. I dare say we can grow more with less rain than can be grown anywhere else in the world.

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The REAL Hal/WA

12-31-2007 15:48:21




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 12-31-2007 09:50:48  
My cousins farm wheat in NE Montana, on land that has been in the family for 100 years, and of course, lots more land. They use low till farming methods, with air seeders and using much more ag chemicals than they used to use. They used to strip farm, but now almost all their tillable land is in crops every year. My cousin told me that he didn't think they had done any actual plowing of the wheatland since the late 80's. They use a fraction of the amount of diesel they used to use farming the old ways, and even though the fertilizer and ag chemicals cost a lot, their yields are more than double per acre than they used to be. And where the whole area used to be very dusty 6 months of the year, now the air is much clearer and the problem of wind erosion of topsoil is more or less cured.

And with the prices for wheat this year, they are doing very well.

I read the article in Geographic. The real issue is the fact that a quarter section is way too small for a family to earn a living raising wheat, or for that matter, most legal crops. So the little homestead properties have been bought up by bigger farmers to achieve economy of scale to afford the big equipment used today. That left a lot of farmsteads, with their house, and maybe barn, chickenhouse and grainery. If the buildings were well built, maybe they are still being used. But buildings do wear out, and lots of times the old time farm buildings were not constructed very well, with lousy foundations one of the biggest problems. When the roof starts leaking, the rest of the building deteriorates quickly.

It isn't just in North Dakota that the rural towns and small farms are disappearing. I live near Spokane, which is a fairly big city, with lots of jobs available. Spokane, and everything between it and Coeur d'Alene is growing fairly fast. But not that far out of the urban area, in farm country, the population is shrinking quickly. Where almost all the little towns used to support their own high school, now there are only a few consolidated school districts, and many of them are on a downward spiral in their numbers of students.

There are fewer and fewer jobs available in the rural areas...where my grandfather sometimes had more than 10 hired hands, my 2 cousins farm 10 times the acreage and seldom hire any outside help.

A friend of mine is a farmer that over the years has bought several other properties that included buildings. Back in the 80's he thought he could do OK by renting out the better farmhouses. He had a terrible time getting his renters to pay the very reasonable rent, and also had trouble with needing to do a whole lot of maintainance at just the worst times. And then he found that one set of renters was growing marijuana in the house. Since then he has bulldozed all the old buildings and got rid of the headaches.

It is a real shame that SOME of the old houses have not been saved, since some of them were very good houses that could have continued to be enjoyed by the people living in them. But at least around here, it is just too much hassle to break a small parcel of land with the buildings off of a much larger piece of farmland. So lots of old houses and other buildings are just left to decay until they fall down or become practice burns for the local volunteer fire department.

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KRUSS1

12-31-2007 15:08:53




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 Re: The Emptied Prairie--Jan 08 National Geographic in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 12-31-2007 09:50:48  
Amen, to the tillage practices, Cowman but it seems a lot of people still haven't caught on.



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