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Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses?

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MichaelNEIowa

12-29-2007 16:23:51

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I have an early Farmall 806 diesel with around 6000 hours and really good (but faded) original paint. Runs great, and I could continue to use it for loader/PTO work as-is.

To put it back in tip-top field ready state, it needs a new TA (and while it is apart, I"d get the clutch and hydraulic pump done at the same time). In addition, it is time for new tires all around. To get it right, I"d need to spend around $6500.

If I fix it, I"ll have way more in it than I"d ever hope to recoup.

Rather than dump more money into this beast, might I be better off selling it and putting the money toward a better, newer machine? For example, a neighbor has a 1456 that he sell me for around what I need to put in the 806.

What would you do?

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Texasmark

01-01-2008 10:51:44

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

Not an IH guy anymore, but you are talking about something that I have considered from time to time.

If you buy a used 14, why is it for sale; what is it's pedigree, and what are you going to have to put into it to use it for however long?

Then there are the implements. Don't know about you, but I have my implements gauged for my tractors. If you get a larger hp tractor, what are you going to do with your/for your implements?

Small implements with a big tractor are not fuel efficient. Buying new implements to fit the new tractor are not pocket book efficient; at least for the near term.

Things to consider.

Mark

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E.B. Haymakin'

12-31-2007 08:16:13

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

If I had an 806 the only way I would give it up is when they pry my cold dead hands from around the steering wheel.

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MichaelNEIowa

12-30-2007 12:12:10

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

Wow, some good food for thought.

I agree that if I fix my 806, at least I'll know I have a good TA, clutch, hydraulic pump, and tires. The engine runs great now, but there are no guarantees. Most of the stuff I'm talking about are normal wear parts--just cannot believe how $$$ the darned things are when you add in the labor. If I fix her, I'm gonna keep her.

When I look at the cost of parts/labor and can buy a good running tractor for the same price, I wonder. I agree that the 1456 is also an old tractor and that there'd be no guarantees it wouldn't blow up tomorrow. It has 7500 hours, good tires and TA now, but who knows about the rest?

I'm leaning toward fixing the 806 as she makes sense for my farm. Heck, maybe I should buy the 1456 too. ;-)

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Michael Soldan

12-30-2007 09:17:50

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

The devil you know is better than the one you don't know!

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rrlund

12-30-2007 09:15:02

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

Just speaking from personal experience with a certain 706 and a 3010 Deere that I bought...call the bone yards and see what they'll give you. I gave 3200 for that 706,and if I had taken it right to Stamm Equipment and sold it for 1500 that day,I'd have been thousands of dollars ahead. That's what they gave me after I put a furtune in to it and a rod went through the block. Unless it's got sentimental value,I'd just tell myself that I've run it in to the ground. I'd sell it and look for a better one and run that one til it wasn't worth fixing.

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Glenn F.

12-30-2007 07:15:37

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

The tires on the 1456 probably aren't new either. If the 806 is the right size for your operation I'd keep it. At times we all have more money into a vehicle/machine than it's worth, but in time you will recoup your money. Depending on what type of loader work you're doing old tires work as good as new ones, till they blow! Keep your eye open for a used set while your old ones are still working.

I'm always in favor of fixing up what I have...."A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.)

This summer, volunteer to help your neighbor out a little and operate his 1456 all day....See what you think of it.

Glenn F.

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Allan In NE

12-30-2007 10:53:48

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to Glenn F., 12-30-2007 07:15:37

Yep,

That 14 is one huge-a$$ed tractor and it's still 40 years old also.

Allan

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Lee in Iowa

12-30-2007 06:32:33

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

A good friend of mine sold a 1086 that ran but had trans and rear end problems to the salvage yard. He then bought a 4520. He's on his 2nd motor and the 4520 is still leaking hyd oil on the clutch. For what he's spent on fixing the 4520 he could have fixed the 1086 once or twice. Lee

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Indiana Boy

12-30-2007 06:24:37

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

Why don't you try to find a good used injector pump off a tractor that had something else go wrong? Your tractor isn't worth much at this time with the injector pump blown up, anyway. Even if you sold it in this condition, the buyer would take the price of pump into account when offering you a price for it. There are a lot of 806's in the scrap yards and, possibly, someone on this site has one or knows of one. Consignment sales have decent used tires that they sometimes almost give away. After that, use the tractor and gradually repair it on an as needed basis. In my experience, unless you plan on updating to a much newer tractor, you are better off putting money into your old one. If you buy the 14, you very well may be buying someone elses problems. Just my two cents worth.

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1206SWMO

12-30-2007 11:39:48

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to Indiana Boy, 12-30-2007 06:24:37

Indiana Boy,I think that you have me confused with Michael.His 806 injection pump is OK.

I'm the one with the bad injection pump.4 roller Roosamaster injection pumps for 1456 IH's are hard to come by.

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fixerupper

12-30-2007 06:13:37

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

$6500. is quite a chunk to chew on all at once but if it gives the old girl ten more years that's $650 per year. Anytime after that is bonus points. If it's used for loader work the clutch might need to be refreshed anyway. 806's were good solid old tractors that were made back in the years when tractors were still overbuilt. Fix it and use it. Gotta go to church. Jim

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TGIN

12-30-2007 05:24:39

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

I put a straight shaft in my 706 and everything eles your talking about . I did it myself with the help of a couple of buddys and a IT manual . It did`nt cost near that much money , I`m guess your talking labor in the price . You can do it yourself . I knew I had a rebuilt 310 motor in it . You know the kwirs with your tractor , if you buy somthing eles you dont have any idea whats gona happen first time you head for the field . There`s usually a reson a guy sells a tractor . I needed tires too and kept looking and found a new set a fella decided not to put on his tractor $500 .

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RickB

12-30-2007 03:42:58

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Return on investment by use in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

If you will use the 806 to recoup the investment you will make in it, fix it. If you plan on selling it to recoup the money, don't fix it, sell it now. Clutch, TA and tires are wear items, if they won't cash flow, you can't afford to own the tractor. Just sucks to need all at once; maybe repalce the tires sooner or later???

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Tradititonal Farmer

12-30-2007 03:33:59

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

I'd keep running the 806 until it died and look for another tractor at a bargain price in the meantime.Anyone anytime can pay market value for something but with almost anyting there are bargains to be had

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Allan In NE

12-30-2007 03:03:08

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

Mornin' Michael,

How big of a tractor do you need? Is the 806 tractor large enough for your operation?

Allan

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MichaelNEIowa

12-30-2007 13:04:57

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to Allan In NE, 12-30-2007 03:03:08

My 806 is big enough. Of course, a few more ponies would be nice.

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super99

12-30-2007 02:44:16

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

I am looking in the Rust Book, they show 7-1456's. 1 for parts @$1450, the rest run from 3000 to 9500, average is 6500
806, lots of them. Run from 2500 to 7500, average seem to be 4-6000. To me, not much diffrence in the age, looks like they would both wear out the same parts, how well do you know this 1456? You could be looking at same problems with it inside of a year. Ifn it was me, if I couldn't go quite a bit newer, I'd fix the 806 and know what I had instead of buying a ?? and wondering how long before something on it craps out. You will have to make that decision and live with it. Good Luck, Chris

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kyhayman

12-29-2007 21:42:49

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

I'd be inclined to run it like it is unless the clutch is slipping and the hydraulics are shot completely.

My expereince has been that on major reworks I spend more than a good newer tractor could be had for. For example, a good used 7610 Ford series II with 3800 hours sold here out of the city motor pool for 7500. If your tractor is worth 4000 like it is and you put 6500 in it thats nearly 11,000 toward a newer tractor. The 806 could need an engine, injector pump, anything in the very near future.

When I start a project I always try to calculate what the tractor will part out for. If I can fix it for what the components are worth, or when I get to 500 over what it will part I break it up. It took me 3 times to learn that buying a tractor for 5000 and putting 5000 in it still left me with at best a 5500-6000 tractor. Just not my kind of economics when good late model tractors that dont need a bunch of stuff can be had in the 10,000 range.

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georgeky

12-29-2007 21:23:36

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

You can not buy a new or slightly used tractor that will do what the 806 will for the money you will have in it. Most likely it will last and work for many years after some fixing up. The 14 could be a nightmare in a few months or may be OK for years. Just like farming in general it is akin to playing poker.

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buickanddeere

12-29-2007 20:13:56

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

Took me too long to understand about putting $$$ into fixing something older and purchasing something reasonably new. I'm sticking with purchasing something nearly new.

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RodInNS

12-29-2007 20:11:31

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

Unless you are looking to upgrade to the 1456 to do something that the 806 can't do, or getting some options that you want that the 806 hasn't got, I'd put the money in the 806. What's the point of buying someone else's problems? You know what's wrong with your own. They can be fixed. If the tractor is still relevant to your operation, fix it. If it's not, upgrade it.... and be prepared to spend a lot more than 11 grand to get anything decent.

Rod

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RustyFarmall

12-29-2007 19:47:45

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

OK, let's say the 806 is worth about $4,000 just the way it is. Now you spend $6,500 to put it in field ready condition, so now you have a good,solid 806 diesel for under $11,000. I don't see a darned thing wrong with that, and for sure that same $11,000 ain't gonna buy you very much in the way of a comparable used tractor. Besides that, I'd be just a little bit scared of a 1456 that could be bought for $6,500. I think I would spend the money on the 806.

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1206SWMO

12-29-2007 19:13:55

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

I believe I'd keep the 806 and use it as is.

1456's are great old tractors but can do this.Mine locked up the injection pump and heres what I have left.A rebuilt pump is $1050 because I have no core.

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Steven f/AZ

12-29-2007 18:11:42

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

Unless your neighbor has already done everything to his 1456, you can assume that it might just be coming along shortly... I've found with tractors and vehicles (in my experience) it has been cheaper to fix my own problems than to purchase someone else's.

Example: wife's car needed a transmission soon, we sold it and bought a use Exploder, put about $1500 worth of tires, upgrades, repairs, etc. into it because it was like-new inside and out. We put about 10k miles on it and the transmission went out. Back to square one and we cut our losses at that point.

Personally, I'd fix up the 806 as that is probably the most reliable, long-lived tractor IH ever built.

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4010guy

12-29-2007 18:10:17

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

MicheaelNEIowa
Weigh your odds and follow your heart.
If your not particularly found of the 806 and would feel good about updating it then dump it.
I got this old 4010(((You know,,,4010guy) :o)
About 15 years ago,,,Maybe more i chipped a tooth and took it to town and went through the tyranny-rear end- motor-found busted castings in the front-pump-injectors-Hyde pump,,,,$$$$$$$$
Are you fol owing me here me here.
Every body said i was nutts to put that kind a money in that old tractor.(and i was)
Buttttt ttttt it has ben a good sound tractor for many years now and i just love running the old beast.
Years ago we had a ol MM G1000 and every time it had so much as a flat tire i was ready to dump it. :)

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RossIL

12-29-2007 17:53:13

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

I agree with Randy, the tractor is usable now. I'd find some good used tires and keep using it until something major goes wrong and then upgrade to something newer/better than the 1456. Both tractors are about the same age- who's to say the 1456 won't need a ton of work in the near future?

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Randy-IA

12-29-2007 17:41:51

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

You already know what's wrong with the one you have . The tires can wait since you say the thing can be used " as is " for loader work . The TA , clutch and pump are the primary issues . Now how much is it ? Tires can be had from auctions cheaper than new . A little at a time . Or an unknown . Just a thought . ...Randy

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caterpillar guy

12-29-2007 16:44:23

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

What do you want for the 806 and is it a diesel. My #517 202 6820 or email mdroszman@wmconnect.com

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billyiron

12-29-2007 16:26:49

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to MichaelNEIowa, 12-29-2007 16:23:51

dump the 8, if the 14 is good, go that way

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doug in illinois

12-29-2007 16:58:02

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to billyiron, 12-29-2007 16:26:49

Unless there is some sentimental reason to keep it, I agree might be time to get rid of it. Would still bring more than pocket change the way it sits now for someone needing a good motor or the rest of the drivetrain. Would be tempted to put a straight shaft in and do away with the TA if I did keep it. I know Hy-Capacity out of IA used to sell the shaft kit, along with TA's for less money than the genuine Case-IH, along with a better warranty. This was from my parts management days, but that has been over 10 years ago, assume they are still a good company. They did also have the pumps, front end parts, etc, then. Just did a search, they have all the above now, along with electrical, seats, almost anything you would need. I would go to their website and go to locate a dealer thru the email if you do decide to rebuild it. They don't sell to the public. DOUG

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steveormary

12-29-2007 20:44:52

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Re: Tractor dilemma: when to cut your losses? in reply to doug in illinois, 12-29-2007 16:58:02

Fix the 806. It will make you a good tractor for the rest of your life. I had 3 tractors that needed work. Engine,hydraulics and brakes. The one tractor was a keeper. Of the other 2 I picked the wrong one to take to the auction. I would have had about $10,000 in the two plus a loader for the bigger one.(656 gasser)

steveormary

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