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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Kawasaki/Kohler eng winter storage.?

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BLinWMi

12-11-2007 05:34:24




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Need your opinions. I do the maintenance for a landscape companies equipment. We have 7 Exmark lawnmowers that I have maintained for 6 years. I have never had a problem till now, we have some hotshot sitting in our corporate office that thinks he knows more about machinery than I do, so checking with the experts here. I have been given a bunch of flack for how I winterized the mowers. We store the equipment in an old insulated hog barn. During the winter it is not uncommon to come in and the air is just like a rainforest, moisture is actually hanging on the wall. I have seen this happen every year since we rented this barn. Because of this, I decided not to do any oil changes in the fall. I waited till spring so any condensation in the motor would be drained out with the spring fluid change. Now the hotshot has decided that because the dealership changes oil in their winterization program, I should too. He says I need to have sharp blades on it before storage too. I always waited till spring to get new blades to keep them from rusting over winter. I know this isn't as big a deal as the oil, but it just didn't make sense to do it all in the fall. Now I am supposed to get all the equipment back out and do these tasks, after I shut off the fuel tanks and ran the carbs dry. So am I all wet or should I tell the corporate clown to go back to his bean counting? Thanks guys

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Gene Davis (Ga.)

12-11-2007 17:31:09




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 Re: Kawasaki/Kohler eng winter storage.? in reply to BLinWMi, 12-11-2007 05:34:24  
The old saying is; "sonny,sonny money is money and the bossman's jokes are always funny"! That is why it is better to be an hourly worker than a straight time employee. Think of it as a money maker if you are hourly employee and if not just bide your time and wait for the opprotunity to be right.



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Bob - MI

12-11-2007 11:03:03




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 Re: Kawasaki/Kohler eng winter storage.? in reply to BLinWMi, 12-11-2007 05:34:24  
Arguing with the corporate guys is dangerous. You may be right but you could end up "dead right".

What is the storage procedure from the engine manufacturer? That would be the one that the boss would be most apt to go with no matter what, especially if he's just some "suit" that isn't mechanically adept.

I live in Michgan too and I always change oil before winter storage. Get the acids out of the crankcase. Any condensation in the case I figure will get taken out when it runs to temperature in the spring.

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El Toro

12-11-2007 09:20:53




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 Re: Kawasaki/Kohler eng winter storage.? in reply to BLinWMi, 12-11-2007 05:34:24  
I made a mistake on where Elk Grve Village is. Its in IL near the airport. Hal



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steve from mo - dangit!

12-11-2007 07:46:15




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 Re: Kawasaki/Kohler eng winter storage.? in reply to BLinWMi, 12-11-2007 05:34:24  
Well, are you working by the hour? He is the boss, and it is his equipment, so I would do what he says and maybe find some other things to fix while I was at it. Then everything will be in like new condition in the spring. Think about it and don't get your back up over something that's not worth it.



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John T

12-11-2007 07:39:56




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 Re: Kawasaki/Kohler eng winter storage.? in reply to BLinWMi, 12-11-2007 05:34:24  
This is one of those topics where you get a range of OPINIONS so may as well toss mine out and what works for me.

1) I change oil in the fall before storage cuz I dont want all that acid n residue from the used oil sititn in my crankcase all winter corroding the metal.

2) I put gas stabilizer PLUS some low ash 2 cycle outboard marine oil in the gas tank, run her good n warm with that mixture in the tank to get it in the carb, turn the gas off n let the carb run dry and that can leave some oil film residue to coat n protect the carbs interior

3) Sharpen the blades SO I DONT HAVE TO IN THE SPRING and then coat with grease to prevent rust.

4) Clean off grass so moisture cant accumulate n remain all wet n cause rust,,,,, ,,,grease n oil all lube points,,,,, keep light film of oil on critical parts n cables to avoid rust

5) Loosen belts so they arent in the same position under tension all winter 6) Air tires full which may help to keep the bead sealed

7) Disconenct a battery cable just in case of any trickle discharges and charge the batery n if possible use a trickle maintenance charger now n then.

8) Keep a loose breatheable dust cover over her to keep off debris but DO NOT have it all tight n sealed so moisture can accumulate n never get air dried

Again, everyone has their own method n opinion, thats just how I do it n it works fine n I intend to continue

yall take care now

John T

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JT

12-11-2007 06:39:02




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 Re: Kawasaki/Kohler eng winter storage.? in reply to BLinWMi, 12-11-2007 05:34:24  
Oh man, sounds like you have a know it nothing telling you what to do, so much fun. To tell you the truth, the best way I would suggest to store them and this is what I tell my customers:
1.Start engine, let it get good and warm, change oil and filter. Why? This will get all the carbon, dirt and acids out of the oil before it gets stored. Replace with a cheap detergent oil, does not matter as long as it is a detergent oil.
2.grease all the fittings, this gets all the dirt out, dirt absorbs moisture, this will lead to rust.
3.blow off all dirt and grass, again, this will attract moisture and lead to rust.
4. charge battery for at least 2 hours at 10-20amp to get a full charge.
5. start, let it warm up for 5 minutes or so.
6. put fuel stabilizer in it the gas, anything is good except Stabil, put in storage area, then shut off gas valve and let carb run dry and die.
I would not do any more than this because the blades can rust, then you have to resharpen them to get a clean cut, and all the belts and such can gt some environmental wear/damage from setting in the elements.
I know this all sounds extreme to do, but your bean counter wanted you to do it one way, and you want to do it the correct way. And this is really the proper way.
Then in spring time, change oil again to get rid of any moisture that might have collected in oil, then change and check you belts, blades, bearings, pulleys, air filters, tires and tire pressures, hydro filters and such. By doing it this way you will extend the life of the equipment. You do not have to do all this, but it sure will help the equipment last longer. So, your bean counter is 10% correct, and 90% full of beans.
The reason we do a complete winter maintenance for consumer mowers is because we are not busy now, and if they waited until it was time to use the mower, we would be so covered up with mowers we would never get them done for the customer to use in the summer.
You as an individual for a small company can do it the correct way and it will cost your company a little in labor and parts, but the long term rewards would be worth it.
Jim

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TomTex

12-11-2007 06:38:29




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 Re: Kawasaki/Kohler eng winter storage.? in reply to BLinWMi, 12-11-2007 05:34:24  
Your boss is right for 2 reasons. One, he IS the boss. Two, the dirty oil contains acids and contaminents that should not sit in the engine all winter. I would change oil/filter and run the engine 15 minutes with the new oil before storing. fI would add a healthy dose of Stabil before the 15 run, then drain the tanks and run carb dry. If the boss wants new blades, then rub them lightly with a thin coating of grease to prevent rust. Can you find a little better storage building? Without so much humidity? Last advice, respect your customers/bosses opinions a littl more, they might be right once in a while. Tom

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Oldmax

12-11-2007 06:24:57




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 Re: Kawasaki/Kohler eng winter storage.? in reply to BLinWMi, 12-11-2007 05:34:24  
I found out a long time ago if you do as you are told and something goes wrong they can't blame you . Some times You get to say "I told you so". I always Drain all gas out of tanks , Start engines and run all gas out . Then Sharpen Blades change oil Filters & plugs in spring . But is their Eqpt .



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El Toro

12-11-2007 06:20:03




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 Re: Kawasaki/Kohler eng winter storage.? in reply to BLinWMi, 12-11-2007 05:34:24  
Sometimes you need to do what management wants even though most of them don't even know the first thing about servicing a piece of machinery.

Back in the late 1970's we were having a new Heavy Field Dynamometer being built in Elk Grove Village MI. Before they ever started the build on this vehicle management circulated a letter through the shop wanting ideas for things we thought should be on the vehicle. We wanted radial tires and have the column on the drawbar to be chrome plated. I made 3 or 4 trips up there and none of this was done. When the vehicle was completed we ran an acceptance test on the vehicle at our testing facility and the differentials overheated. Called the contractor
and they called the differential manufacturer. They said to lower the oil level in each gear box. We did this several times and it never helped.

One evening as I was walking by the tires on the vehicle they were so hot you couldn't hold your hand on them. I called the local Goodyear dealer
in Baltimore to ask him about this heat and he wanted know how fast we were operating the vehicle. I told him in the 45 to 50mph range. He said those Goodyear tires are rated to a max speed of 25mph. I invited him to come up and tell our management that. We ended up buying Michelin tires from this dealer. Guess what happened next, the overheating differentials problem was solved. Had to get the column chrome plated too. We use to have a saying "its all in 8 hours". I put a suggestion in once that was going to save the government a lot of money. They told me that was my job and they had fliers hanging everywhere wanting everyone to make suggestions and they would pay money if they're used. I figured it was time to retire
and I called the man that had reviewed my suggestion and told him he didn't even know what I was suggesting not even a clue. He couldn't pour pee out of a boot. Hal

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Paul from MN

12-11-2007 06:14:28




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 Re: Kawasaki/Kohler eng winter storage.? in reply to BLinWMi, 12-11-2007 05:34:24  
I try to put all of my equipment away with fresh oil. I may be wrong and you may be right. However, it just isn't worth arguing about. They are the companies mowers and it sounds like the company has given this guy at corporate charge of them. Politely explain why you do what you do, but leave the final decision up to him.



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BLinWMI

12-11-2007 16:15:42




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 Re: Kawasaki/Kohler eng winter storage.? in reply to Paul from MN, 12-11-2007 06:14:28  
I didn't mean to come across as being arrogant in this situation, there is a long story behind it. My company is in the restaurant business, we own 140 some Burger Kings and 50 Chilis in 5 states. 6 years ago we decided to start servicing our own properties. We started with 2 crews the first year, adding one crew a year till all the markets were being serviced. I was one of the 2 crew captains. In the next couple years, I proved myself and worked up to the field manager of the entire landscape dept. I mowed 2 days a week locally and spent the rest of the week on the road keeping everything moving smoothly. I had a counterpart,Ken, who kept all the paperwork and office nonsense done, we worked great together. Till the bean counter came along. Ken had been with the company 23 years and was basically manipulated and squeezed out of the company by the clown. I was promoted to Kens position, I did it for one year and over the winter the bean counter convinced the company VP that he was such a great bean counter, so I was demoted. Now all decisions are made by someone on our corporate 3rd floor who has not spent a total of one hour out in the field doing the job. There have been scores of out right stupid decisions handed down, this is just another one that irked me. The guy knows nothing about the equipment, and didn't bother telling me any of this while I had the equipment out and could have serviced it but now that it is basically put away for the winter, he comes up with this stuff. Sorry for the rant, still a little miffed about the last big decision the moron made. I had a 95 f250 with 269K miles, it was getting tired and he decided to go buy a new truck, without any input from the guy who actually uses it. He shows up with a 2 wheel drive half ton with a V6. I think the trailer I pull is heavier than this joke he bought. He didn't have the common sense to buy a 4 wheel drive real truck, let alone a diesel.
Oh well, thanks for your ideas on what is best to maintain the equip.

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