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O/T: Clever little website on fuel efficiency

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Rod in Smiths F

10-25-2007 02:28:10




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Natural Resources Canada has put up this site on fuel consumption. What puzzles me is how automatic transmissions in vehicles, long regarded as fuel hogs, now get better ratings than manuals. I guess they must have improved the slush-boxes since 2002.


http://www.oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transportation/tools/compare/compare-search-one.cfm?attr=8




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jdemaris

10-25-2007 10:18:32




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 Re: O/T: Clever little website on fuel efficiency in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, 10-25-2007 02:28:10  
For real-world driving in many cases, I don't believe it. Neither do the US EPA fuel-mileage ratings.

There are many variables - range between gears, axle ratios, types of driving, etc.

Two like vehicles - same weight, engines, wind resistance, etc. - doing the same speed with the engines at the same load and RPMs - will do basically the same regardless if auto or stick when the lock-up torque converter is locked. At lower speeds, in most cases the stick wins since there is less slippage and loss.

City or hill driving - it will depend a bit on what trans offers the best ranges to let the engine run at peak efficiency at various speeds.

I glanced at new EPA specs for many trucks and don't find any autos that beat stick if axles and engines are equal. Some autos are equal on highway but less for city driving.

Here are a few.

2008 F150 Ford 20 for stick, 19 for auto
2008 Ford Escape - 28 stick, 26 auto
2008 Ford Ranger PU - 26 stick, 24 auto
2008 Ford Ranger PU 4WD - 20 stick, 19 auto
2007 Chevy Silverado truck - 20 stick, 19 auto
2007 Chevy Silverado truck 4WD, 19 stick, 17 auto
2008 Jeep Liberty 3.7 4WD 22 stick, 21 auto
2008 Dodge truck - 3.7 both auto and stick get 19 highway, but stick beats auto for city
driving.

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JML755

10-25-2007 08:17:44




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 Re: O/T: Clever little website on fuel efficiency in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, 10-25-2007 02:28:10  
buickanddeere,

True....., but you now have autos with computers that require ODB scanners, tuneups in the hundreds of $$$, sensors all over the engine that are almost impossible to get to (and expensive to replace). My point: the days of the shade tree mechanic are also gone.



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Rod in Smiths Falls, ON

10-26-2007 15:07:28




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 Re: O/T: Clever little website on fuel efficiency in reply to JML755, 10-25-2007 08:17:44  
Maybe the shadetree mechanics have just changed what they do a bit.

My son bought an Audi navigation system on eBay for a third of its cost, then he and a pal installed it on the corner of the dealer's lot, using their specialized tools. He had downloaded a 300 page manual from Audi on the nav system and had no difficulty with the job.

I think that qualifies as a shadetree project.



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Jim K

10-25-2007 13:42:55




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 Re: O/T: Clever little website on fuel efficiency in reply to JML755, 10-25-2007 08:17:44  
I don't believe the bit about the shadetree being dead. I consider myself a shadetree, and right now my son and I are building a fuel injected 347 mustang, and I wouldn't think of putting a carb on it. Altho I think they are nice on nostalgic cars, but to build a modern hot rod and put a carb on it is the lazy mans way out. There are all sorts of things you can do to increase performance. All you have to do is a little research and once you understand what's supposed to happen to make an engine run with fuel injection you'll never go back to carburated. More mileage, less engine wear due to mal adjusted carburetors which dramaticly increases engine life, and less polution, longer times between tune ups. Remember points type ignition and how fun it was to get them adjusted just right? Just imagine if we still had to crank the car or truck to get them started. I believe what has died is the greese monkey. How much longer before fuel injection is out of date? I believe it already is. We should be running our vehicles on fumes. Especially with the price of gasoline nowadays. We have to get with the times. We're lagging way behind in automotive technology. We need to develop ways to use hydrogen, even nuclear, another thing we're lagging way behind in that we should have a better handle on. Imagine buying a car and never having to put fuel in it for the life of the vehicle. When the fuel cell burns out in 20 yrs or so you just bring it to a recycler and buy a new one.

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buickanddeere

10-25-2007 06:04:17




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 Re: O/T: Clever little website on fuel efficiency in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, 10-25-2007 02:28:10  
Because a computer can shift a lock up torque convertor transmission and control the throttle with cruise control better than a human. The dark days with gasoline engines with ignition points,carburators & 2 or 3 speed autommatics are long past.



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RobMD

10-25-2007 09:55:15




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 Re: O/T: Clever little website on fuel efficiency in reply to buickanddeere, 10-25-2007 06:04:17  
True, but that comes with all the high-tech schitt which is costly $$ to repair.



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buickanddeere

10-26-2007 12:35:45




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 what good old days? Re: O/T: Clever little website on fuel in reply to RobMD, 10-25-2007 09:55:15  
As a kid it was a common sight to hear/see/smell missing, back firing or dead vehicles on the road. Jumper cables were a must have. Engines would quit in rainy weather. Engines vapour locked in hot weather. Gasoline engines & vehicles wore out fast. A gasser with 100,000 miles without a rebuild was uncommon & on borrowed time. Plugs, points, oil filter/changes, stuck exhaust cross over valves, air filter changes took time & $$$ every 3000 miles. Now engines start at -40 just by turning the key and without touching the gas pedal. The engines don't stall either when starting away cold. Oil/filter changes are at 10,000 miles, ignition systems go 100,000 miles and the only item to service are the plugs. Air filters go 10-30,000 miles. Mileage and power has more than doubled on the same size vehicle. Even the tires last longer at 30,40 thousand instead of being bald at 10,000 miles. I don't miss the good old days. An ODD II scanner which will find most problems. Costs about the same as a good dinner out and a show for two.

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Hugh MacKay

10-25-2007 03:35:36




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 Re: O/T: Clever little website on fuel efficiency in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, 10-25-2007 02:28:10  
Rod: Government of Canada use funny math in compiling statistics. For close to a decade now they have been claiming inflation rate has been in the 1 to 3 % range. I don't know what they buy in that sample shopping cart, but it sure ain't the items I have to buy every week.

Way back in the 60s, then Prime Minister Lester Pearson, as he was putting the Canada Pension Plan before Parliment, "These pensions will be indexed to inflation forever". Well guess what, I know guys that were getting over $500. per month in 1975. If you compound the consumer price index since 1975, it has multiplied 4 times yet the maximum pension 2007 is $845, HARDLY FOUR TIMES THE 1975 LEVEL.

Back when ole Lester was making the anouncement in the mid 60s my dad and I were farming together. We had an accountant, big fan of Lester's, even tried to look like Lester. Together we watched Lester's speech on TV and my dad said, "This is good for me, however you young lads are going to be screwed on Canada Pension." Well, my dad, the accountant and Lester are all deceased now, leaving me with a Canada Pension roughly 40% of what it should be. I paid this money in and as Lester declared these were basically a sacred thrust to be invested wisely on our behalf.

Our government, best organized bunch of criminals I know of. I wouldn't put too much faith in their automatic transmission declaration. Certainly wouldn't buy, based on their recomendation.

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mjbrown

10-25-2007 05:28:14




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 Re: O/T: Clever little website on fuel efficiency in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-25-2007 03:35:36  
Your government is NOT the best organized bunch of criminals..... ...our's is. USA So there.;-)



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Ken Macfarlane

10-25-2007 09:06:18




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 Re: O/T: Clever little website on fuel efficiency in reply to Animal, 10-25-2007 07:13:45  
Its true, there are a number of autos kicking the 5 spd's mileage now but there is dual clutch computer controlled manual coming that promises another 5 % gain or so over the current autos.

Not a big gain but over the life of a car it matters. They will probably try to charge a lot for it though which is foolish since it doesn't use any expensive planetaries!



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