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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

floating gears in 3/4 ton

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Rich Iowa

07-08-2007 17:52:35




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A friend and I have been debating this for some time now, he thinks the manaul transmissions in 3/4 and 1ton pickup are not built for shifting without the clutch and doing so will destroy the synchronizers and other parts. I feel if they are strong enough to handle the power these engines can produce today, there is no harm in floating the gears. Anyone have knowledge on this subject so we can end this debate? I drive a truck locally and we never use the clutch except to get moving. I don't think I'd do it in my Dodge Dakota, that is a light tranny.

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kyler27

07-11-2007 11:49:54




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 Re: floating gears in 3/4 ton in reply to Rich Iowa, 07-08-2007 17:52:35  
have everybody gotten that lazy that they cant pick their foot and push in a clutch they are easy now being hydralic and all yes i can slip shift or float or whatever but in a ton truck or smaller it is very bad for them the syncros are made out of brass and can have the teeth broke easily or worse a shift fork bent comparing them to big truck tranny is stupid they arent even close they dont have syncros and most of the "TRUCK DRIVERS" now cant slip shift a big truck right either ive been there rebuilt that

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Richie Osgood

07-09-2007 19:23:49




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 Re: floating gears in 3/4 ton in reply to Rich Iowa, 07-08-2007 17:52:35  
I can do it too but it ain"t good for them. It doesn"t take alot of abuse to wreck syncros. In my dump trucks I usally don"t use the clutch unless in a tight spot. The jake break works good for bringing down revs quick for a uphill upshift.



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Lumpy

07-09-2007 10:19:57




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 Re: floating gears in 3/4 ton in reply to Rich Iowa, 07-08-2007 17:52:35  
I used to do it all the time in my old '74 f250. It had a in-line 6 and an old t-10 top loader with a granny low. You could let the clutch out at idle with out killing it, get out and walk faster than it was moving! Ahhh.... the good old days!



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old

07-08-2007 21:00:30




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 Re: floating gears in 3/4 ton in reply to Rich Iowa, 07-08-2007 17:52:35  
Only thing a clutch is for is stopping and starting. I shift my chev all the time and only use the clutch when I'm starting or have to stop other wise I don't touch it. I do that also with my 1991 Geo tracker and never have any problems. BUT I also have more then a 1,000,000 miles under my belt and have drove the big rigs and 2 wheelers all my life, so I have BTDT on all sorts of cars, trucks, motorcycles and heavy equipment

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centralilbaler

07-09-2007 09:04:28




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 Re: floating gears in 3/4 ton in reply to old, 07-08-2007 21:00:30  
old that"s the way i was taught to drive.



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Gerald J.

07-08-2007 20:46:22




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 Re: floating gears in 3/4 ton in reply to Rich Iowa, 07-08-2007 17:52:35  
The problem with "floating" the gears in a gas truck is that the throttle is a torque control, not a speed control. In a diesel truck the throttle is a speed control, it works the setting of the governor, so its a whole lot easier to back off the speed slightly to get the truck coasting but not yet pushing the engine to pull out of a gear cleanly, and then to set the engine speed for matching the next gear so it goes in without force or even working the synchronizers. There just isn't that engine speed control (and with the higher speeds of a many cylinder gas engine it harder to hear or feel the speed close enough) on the gas engine.

Gerald J.

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Mike M

07-08-2007 20:03:35




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 Re: floating gears in 3/4 ton in reply to Rich Iowa, 07-08-2007 17:52:35  
I have tried it some and they didn't seem to shift in right so I use the clutch.

Big trucks without syncronizers will go right in if the speed and timing is right. I have heard that if you do this on a CDL test they flunk you on the spot. They want you to double clutch. I never really could get that to work ?



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Janicholson

07-08-2007 18:06:45




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 Re: floating gears in 3/4 ton in reply to Rich Iowa, 07-08-2007 17:52:35  
Extreme accuracy in timimg the shift, and experience doing it, are critical. You will ruin the syncros if not done tranparently. Each syncro is a tiny clutch stopping the reletive motion of the two sets of splines (shift dogs) being slid together. A very tender hand and patience is needed to avoid spline wear, and syncro damage. Clutches are cheaper than rebuilding a tranny. JimN



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Rich Iowa

07-08-2007 19:23:53




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 Re: floating gears in 3/4 ton in reply to Janicholson, 07-08-2007 18:06:45  
It sounds like both my friend and I are partly right on this. I do agree on having to do it just right, I have a 2003 Dodge 2500 and I can float the gears shifting up but down it doesn't allways cooperate with me so i usualy clutch while down shifting.



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Janicholson

07-08-2007 18:06:22




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 Re: floating gears in 3/4 ton in reply to Rich Iowa, 07-08-2007 17:52:35  
Extreme accuracy in timimg the shift, and experience doing it, are critical. You will ruin the syncros if not done tranparently. Each syncro is a tiny clutch stopping the reletive motion of the two sets of splines (shift dogs) being slid together. A very tender hand and patience is needed to avoid spline wear, and syncro damage. Clutches are cheaper than rebuilding a tranny. JimN



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Nebraska Kirk

07-08-2007 18:01:05




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 Re: floating gears in 3/4 ton in reply to Rich Iowa, 07-08-2007 17:52:35  
In my opinion, as long as you don"t grind the gears it will not hurt it a bit. I have driven a Ford F550 and a Dodge 1ton, both 6-speed trannys, and I shift up and down all the time without using the clutch.



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dds-in

07-08-2007 18:00:17




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 Re: floating gears in 3/4 ton in reply to Rich Iowa, 07-08-2007 17:52:35  
Well, I can full float in any transmission, even the little fart pipes. But I'll tell you what, If you're NOT doing it right and you have to sort of "pull" it out of gear and "push" it in, you're going to DESTROY the synchronizers.

The real trick floating any transmission is to get in that certain speed where the gear just sort of "falls" in.

HOWEVER, I don't float ALL THE time, just when I feel like it. The risk with the smaller trucks is just too much.

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