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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

alternator conversion draining battery.

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Randy in SW Pa

05-25-2007 19:51:17




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Hi Folks, I installed a new to me, 12 volt alternator on an old Farmall 230 I got from my neighbor. It had already been converted to 12volt when I got it. If I leave the battery hooked up it will drain the battery in a few hours. Other wise it charges fine. What should I do to prevent battery discharge?

Thanks!




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Randy in SW Pa

05-27-2007 04:50:57




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to Randy in SW Pa, 05-25-2007 19:51:17  
Thanks John and Jon for all the extra help and have a safe and happy weekend!

I will redo everything next week.

Randy



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john in la

05-26-2007 07:42:30




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to Randy in SW Pa, 05-25-2007 19:51:17  
Rather than give a long drawn out answer of info you may know let me post a short answer and ask you to post questions of info you need.

The # 1 wire must be keyed. You can use a toggle switch; push pull switch; any way to disconect and connet the current flow. A one way diode must be used so you can turn tractor off.

Sounds like your wiring worked but it is time to do it right.

Questions????? ????

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Randy in SW Pa

05-26-2007 07:54:55




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to john in la, 05-26-2007 07:42:30  
John thanks for posting this.

So How do I know which is field and which is sensing?

Any specs on the diode? Radio shack?



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john in la

05-26-2007 08:45:51




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to Randy in SW Pa, 05-26-2007 07:54:55  
The back of the alt shoud be marked #1 and 2 OR F and S but the #1 Field is always on the left when looked at from the back.

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Radio Shack sells many diodes that will work. Part # 1N4003; 1N914; 276-1661 and it seems everyone uses a differant one because differant stores stock differant items.

You are looking for a 3a-6a diode that will handle at least 50piv but 200piv would be much better.

The diode must be hooked up the correct way. The cathode end goes toward the alternator. This end is usually marked in some way such as a white band. You can test it by hooking it up and turning on the key with the motor off. If you have power on both sides it is hooked up correctly. If not turn it around

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Randy in SW Pa

05-26-2007 09:12:57




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to john in la, 05-26-2007 08:45:51  
Thanks Again John I really appreciate your time.

So on my system there is just an on/off toggle switch and a ring pull to activate the starter.

On the switch I just hook the wire running from the alt field to the coil on one side of the switch, and a hot wire from the battery connection on the starter?



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john in la

05-26-2007 21:12:12




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to Randy in SW Pa, 05-26-2007 09:12:57  
Yes..... . You need to have switched power to the coil and alt. So one side of the switch needs power 24/7 and is hooked to the battery; battery side of starter relay; ect. Any where that the battery + cable hooks. The other side of the switch gets hooked to the + side of the coil to provide power here and to the field plug on the alt to give it power.

To kill the tractor you turn off the toggle switch cutting power from the battery to the coil. This is where a lot of people have problems because when the tractor is running the field post of the alt will put out power and since the coil is hooked to the same side of the switch the tractor will keep running even with the switch off. This is why we must install the diode in the alt wire. It allows you to supply power to the alt to get it to start charging but does not allow power to backfeed to power the coil when the switch is off.

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Gerald J.

05-26-2007 08:55:50




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to john in la, 05-26-2007 08:45:51  
1N400x family is 1 amp. Probably good enough but not as mechanically rugged as a higher current diode, like 1N580x family.

Since the alternative is a lamp or a 10 ohm resistor I suspect the 1 amp diode is plenty.

Gerald J.



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john in la

05-26-2007 07:53:28




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to john in la, 05-26-2007 07:42:30  
One other thing. The key switch is hooked up this way.

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Allan In NE

05-26-2007 03:56:27




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to Randy in SW Pa, 05-25-2007 19:51:17  
Randy,

Just something to think about in addition to what the other guys have said.

You could have a leaky diode inside the alternator itself. When this happens, they will charge but won't shut off the reverse flow when the alternator's output voltage is below that of the battery.

Just thought I'd bring it up,

Allan



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old

05-25-2007 21:04:09




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to Randy in SW Pa, 05-25-2007 19:51:17  
What type of alternator is it and how is it wired. If its a Delco 10SI you need a diode in the wire that goes to the #1 terminal or it will drain the battery. A switch also works but then if you forget to turn on or off that switch you have a problem also. I use radio shack part #276-1661 diode in all my alternator set up and have yet to have a problem

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Randy in SW Pa

05-26-2007 04:07:42




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to old, 05-25-2007 21:04:09  
Well here is what I got,

I have a delco alternator. There is one bigger post in the back of it. and a white clip in the side with 2 wires in it. A red one and a smaller white one. The red one in the clip is connected inline to the bigger post in the back, and then gos to the starter. Then the smaller white one goes to the positive post on the battery.

For the on and off switch I have a wire from the starter going to a toggle switch then to some resistor gizmo for the 6-12 volt conversion, and then to the coil. I dont know why it is hooked up this way but at the time it seemed to work and I just left it.

But after several times of forgetting to disconnect my battery I think this time I shot my battery.

Thanks for the help. BTW Old I always enjoy your little website of your family. I wish everybody had a personal site like that.

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old

05-26-2007 08:12:18




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to Randy in SW Pa, 05-26-2007 04:07:42  
You found the battery drian its because of the wire from the plug hooked to the battery. Jon covers how it should be wired or lets say just one of many ways it can be wired up.



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Jon Hagen

05-26-2007 07:56:20




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to Randy in SW Pa, 05-26-2007 04:07:42  
" have a delco alternator. There is one bigger post in the back of it. and a white clip in the side with 2 wires in it. A red one and a smaller white one. The red one in the clip is connected inline to the bigger post in the back, and then gos to the starter. Then the smaller white one goes to the positive post on the battery.

For the on and off switch I have a wire from the starter going to a toggle switch then to some resistor gizmo for the 6-12 volt conversion, and then to the coil. I dont know why it is hooked up this way but at the time it seemed to work and I just left it."

Ok Randy, the small white wire is the #1 exciter wire. It must not be connected to the battery post as it will be powered all the time and discharge your battery. The little white wire must be connected to the ignition switch terminal that goes to the ignition resistor. This will connect power to the white wire to start the alternator charging when the ignition switch is on, yet disconnect it from power when you turn off the ignition,which is how it must be to prevent the battery discharge. Your other wiring sounds OK, except the output from the alternator should go to the ammeter first with another wire from the other ammeter post to the starter/battery so the ammeter can give you an indication of charge/discharge.

The wire from the alternator output (BAT) terminal, along with the wires that feed the ignition and light switch must be on one ammeter post, with only the wire to the starter/battery being connected to the other ammeter post. If the ammeter reads in reverse, exchange all wires to the opposite meter post.

If by chance your engine continues running with the ignition switch off after connecting the white alternator wire to the ignition switch, you may need to add a device in the white wire to prevent a backflow of power from the alternator to the ignition switch.
This can be a diode as Old suggested, or a resistor or indicator light which is a form of resistor. I perfer the indicator light, as it gives a visual indication of power getting to the alternator exciter circuit and a replacement is avalible at any hardware/auto parts/farm store or gas station. A two wire gen or oil light from a junked car or the front side marker lamp socket from a 70's Ford works well. Just connect the two socket wires to the two cut off ends of the white wire somewhere between the ignition switch and alternator. This little light will prevent backfeed from the alternator reaching the ignition coil and causing it to run with the ignition switch off.
The light will also indicate alternator condition. With the ignition on but engine not started, the glowing light indicates that the alternator exciter circuit is getting power as it should. If the light glows with the engine running fast, then it indicates a problem with the alternator.

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Jon Hagen

05-25-2007 21:20:46




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to old, 05-25-2007 21:04:09  
Old, the diode alone will not fix the problem. Power to the #1 regulator terminal still needs to be switched off when the machine is shut down.
the diode only blocks return flow from the #1 exciter terminal to the ignition system, it does not prevent battery drain if the #1 regulator terminal has constant power.



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old

05-25-2007 21:39:35




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to Jon Hagen, 05-25-2007 21:20:46  
Truew that why it should be wired to the ignition swithc and thats why the diode has to be there to keep te alternator form feeding back to the coil when you turn the switch off. Ya some times I leave out a blank or 2 at times. But when you post as often as I do its easy to forget not all people know these tractor like some of us do

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Jon Hagen

05-26-2007 15:03:09




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to old, 05-25-2007 21:39:35  
I know what you mean Old, I wish this site had an Edit feature so a guy could go back in a post to fix mistakes or add things to make our intent clear. as is, we need to add another post to correct the first one which is not all that bad too, I guess.



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old

05-26-2007 19:31:47




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to Jon Hagen, 05-26-2007 15:03:09  
Ya at times that would be good. Shoot I post so much on here people will send me an e-mail and think I'll rememebr what they where talking about and I then have to ask them what tractor since I answer way to many of the posts I guess. LOL



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Jon Hagen

05-25-2007 20:23:41




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 Re: alternator conversion draining battery. in reply to Randy in SW Pa, 05-25-2007 19:51:17  
If you used a Delco 10-12SI alternator with internal regulator,you may have it wired incorrectly. The #1 regulator wire should be connected to switched power so the #1 terminal is hot only when the ignition switch is on.

If the #1 regulator wire is connected to constant battery power, it will cause a constant 3-5 amp drain which will discharge the battery while the tractor is parked.

The #2 regulator wire should be connected to the alternator "bat" stud.

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