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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

O/T sorta! Diesel fuel prices

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toolman2800

04-11-2007 10:48:10




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OK. In the past I have bought fuel oil and used the same tank for a furnace in my shop in the barn and to burn in my tractors and any off road equipment. I do not burn it in any ON road vehicles so that’s not a concern! Right now Fuel oil is $2.48 gallon locally. I’m in New York State. Farm diesel is $2.09 gallon if I buy 1000 gallons. Fuel supplier says it exactly the same fuel, dyed the same and comes out of the same tank. In order to get farm diesel I need to have a farm exempt tax form on file with them. Fuel oil supposedly has no sales tax on it so I am unsure why there is such a big difference in the above prices. Even the supplier couldn’t give me any logical answer. I’m really only a little hobby farm but have quite a few pieces of diesel equipment. I wouldn’t burn 1000 gallons in just the tractors in a year by any means. What’s really needed to qualify as being “farm exempt” as far as diesel fuel goes. Who will ever know what I burn the fuel in once I have it in my tank? How fussy would they be as to whether it goes in a tractor or a furnace? Obviously I’m just trying to beat the high cost of diesel fuel but don’t want to end up in jail over it. The difference adds up to almost $400 and I am unsure as to why.

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ErnieDD

04-11-2007 18:43:20




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 Re: O/T sorta! Diesel fuel prices in reply to toolman2800, 04-11-2007 10:48:10  
Gotta love NY. They have tax down to a fine science. I am beating feet in less than 5 years, not that I am counting.



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jdemaris

04-11-2007 12:50:34




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 Re: O/T sorta! Diesel fuel prices in reply to toolman2800, 04-11-2007 10:48:10  
I'm in central New York - Otsego County - and keep a 1000 gallons of dyed-diesel on hand all the time. All the versions have taxes - but the taxes all differ depending if sold as "on road highway" "farm diesel", or "heating oil." The people that sell the farm diesel - or heating oil - are supposed to make the determination depending on what your tank is hooked to. If it is hooked to a heating-system, they can fill it with fuel priced and taxed as "fuel oil." If the tank has a pump on it for filling tractors and such and is NOT hooked to anything else - the tax is higher unless you've got a bunch of exemption forms filled out. I've got five tanks here - four are 275 gallons and one is 300 gallons. The first four are hooked to some sort of oil-furance - one in the barn and one in the house - although I hardly ever use either since we heat all our buildings with a wood furnace. But, one set also has a hand-pump on it for filling tractors. Anytime any supplier complains, I offer to yank it out - until he leaves. The fourth tank is out in a unheated barn with a hand-pump on it. Some suppliers overlook it and don't worry about the exemption requirements, and others will not put "heating oil" into the tank with the pump on it. I always shop around for the best price - which causes trouble sometimes when someone new shows up here.

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tolman2800

04-11-2007 13:18:38




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 Re: O/T sorta! Diesel fuel prices in reply to jdemaris, 04-11-2007 12:50:34  
From what your saying, I gather "fuel oil" should be cheaper than "farm diesel" then. Strangely my supplier is saying the opposite. Fuel oil is 39 cents a gallon more! I think I'm just gonna fill out a damn farm exempt tax form and hope for the best. I have a half dozen empty 275 gallon oil tanks they can fill and I can move them at my leisure with my forklift to where ever I want and pump the fuel into whatever I want. They seem to be concerned if I was "big enough" to use 1000 gallons of "Farm Diesel". Who says I have to use it all in one season? They indicated they didnt want to see it being burnt in a furnace.

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jdemaris

04-11-2007 13:58:54




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 Re: O/T sorta! Diesel fuel prices in reply to tolman2800, 04-11-2007 13:18:38  
It has to depend on who you are buying from. May be diffenent in various counties also? The place I use the most - works like this. Five cents off per gallon for any delivery over 300 gallons of any fuel. Last week - heating oil was 2.09 per gallon and farm-fuel was $2.19 if the paper work was not filled out. If it WAS filled out - I think the price was the same as heating oil. I never had to find out since I bought all as "heating oil" after a little arguing. So, maybe that actually means there are two different prices for off-road fuel - one for farm and one for other stuff like backhoes, bulldozers, etc? Whenever I drive through Michigan, they sell off-road diesel right at the pump. I filled my 60 gallon tanks last year in my F250 Ford with off-road dyed fuel by accident. I wasn't expecting there to be a choice, so I didn't notice until it was too late. I was afraid they wouldn't let me drive away - but the counter person didn't say a word about it. So, at the time - I guess I was a fuel-felon. I'm not in the fuel business, so I have to rely on what these people tell me when I buy. I think some of them do things their own way - and can overlook certain issues when they want to. There is one local supplier out toward Albany that advertises in the Pennysaver every week - and he always posts one price for dyed diesel - farm or for heat. I used him once and he did not ask me any questions about my various tanks. We used to have an Agway salesman come around every spring - around this time of year and with almost unbelievable prices on "farm-fuel" - NOT heating oil. Last time he was here - it was 60 cents a gallon - so I guess it's been a few years - maybe 20 years ago? A lot of local farmers used it and complained it was crap. Rumour was it was over half kerosene and a gallon of it did not do the work a gallon of uncut #2 diesel would do.

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Mike (WA)

04-11-2007 12:26:46




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 Re: O/T sorta! Diesel fuel prices in reply to toolman2800, 04-11-2007 10:48:10  
Seems to me that the guvment's only stake in the deal is collecting their tax, and they can only collect road tax if its used on the highways. So if you're not using it on the road, seems like Uncle Sam would have no jurisdiction over it, and you could use it for anything you want.



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1936

04-11-2007 11:34:42




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 Re: O/T sorta! Diesel fuel prices in reply to toolman2800, 04-11-2007 10:48:10  
The off road fuel is colored pink. Not the point for color - the past time in southern Iowa is to stick the pick ups at the sale barns by dot inspectors for fuel color. OH, yes many have been fined for sucking eggs. About a grand.

You can buy off road fuel at many stations in your bulk tank and haul yourself.



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Bob in AZ

04-11-2007 11:10:12




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 Re: O/T sorta! Diesel fuel prices in reply to toolman2800, 04-11-2007 10:48:10  
Car diesel here in Arizona is $2.88 a gallon , I just filled my Dodge up yesterday at Flying J which usually is the cheapest . Over the road truckers pay even more .

I cant comment on tractor diesel as there isnt any stations here that seem to sell it . No agriculture , just desert . But in the midwest they used to have it at all the CO-OP stations and I believe it was dyed a different color .. get caught with it in a road vehicle and you got a fine ( although I never remember anybody getting nailed for it . )

Notice on the pumps it says "low sulpher" . I wonder if this is how they justify the high cost of diesel because it costs more to produce ? hmmm makes you wonder .... or just BS to charge you more money? Anybody know what it takes to produce this low sulpher fuel ?

just curious , Bob

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Coloken

04-11-2007 11:01:22




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 Re: O/T sorta! Diesel fuel prices in reply to toolman2800, 04-11-2007 10:48:10  
Every place could be different but as far as I am conserned:

“farm exempt” means any thing except on the road.

Can't they supply cheap heating oil without the high priced additives?



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Toolman2800

04-11-2007 11:09:57




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 Re: O/T sorta! Diesel fuel prices in reply to Coloken, 04-11-2007 11:01:22  
I offered to pre buy 1000 gallons of "fuel oil" if she could give it to me at $2.09 but no deal. Thats what really has me confused, if there is no tax on either what in hell is the difference?



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Mike M

04-11-2007 11:27:37




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 Re: O/T sorta! Diesel fuel prices in reply to Toolman2800, 04-11-2007 11:09:57  
Sounds like a volume discount price. The more you buy the cheaper it is. You also may not pay road tax , but may have to pay sales tax.



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toolman2800

04-11-2007 11:35:59




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 Re: O/T sorta! Diesel fuel prices in reply to Mike M, 04-11-2007 11:27:37  
Claims there is no sales tax on either nor any road tax. Offered to buy the same amount of "fuel oil" for the same price but they refused. Only difference I could see is the fact I have to have a "farm exempt" tax form on file to qualify for the farm diesel.



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mjbrown

04-11-2007 12:01:41




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 Re: O/T sorta! Diesel fuel prices in reply to toolman2800, 04-11-2007 11:35:59  
If you have a farm fill out the form and don't worry about it. Even if you rent it out you still need to mow lane ways etc. so your entitled to buy untaxed off road fuel. You might go in with your neighbor to get the bulk price if you have a way to haul it home. Many farmers in NY burn diesel in their home furnaces/boilers. I think there is sales tax on fuel oil and not on farm diesel but I could be mistaken.

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