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Off topic: spray foam insulation

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Moline_guy

03-15-2007 20:02:18

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We are currently remodeling our attic, turning it into a bedroom. We are planning on using spray foam insulation contracter who is going to charge around $3/sq ft and says 3.25- 3.5" will give R24. Rafters are only 2x4 so thats all the thicker he will be able to go. Just wondering if anyone has used it, seems a little pricey but it will be completely sealed when it expands and then we will cover with 5/8 sheetrock. Thanks for any replies.

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Clarkbug

03-17-2007 08:09:07

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

Hey there Moline Guy.

You already have lots of opinions on your foam idea, but I just wanted to put in a few more thoughts.

Regardless of your insulation choice, was your attic insulated at the roof or at the ceiling before? I only ask because it depends on where your air/moisture envelope was before. It has to do with how the moisture and air will move through your house and how that would affect things.

The spray foam itself (I believe you were thinking of icynene foam, I think they also make a soy-based one, but not sure there) is a good insulator for sure, since it blocks the wind infiltration. Its just going to be tough if you ever have to renovate again, since you cant run new wires or anything through it without routing it all out.

Also, you should be able to get away with 1/2" gyp board unless your insurance company requires the 5/8" for a fire rating. Save your back and put up the lighter stuff :)

Just my .02 on everything, and just a friendly reminder that Im not a contractor.

Good luck regardless!

~Bug

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RayP(MI)

03-16-2007 17:13:59

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

Construction gurus around here seem to think that the under side of roof boards should be open to air flow and be vented top and bottom, allowing the natural convetion to carry out air and moisture thru upeer vents. Could you attach your insulation on bottom of 2x4 rafters, like maybe styrofoam sheets?

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AP in GA

03-16-2007 09:04:14

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

There are a lot of different spray foam insulations on the market. Some are open cell and others are closed cell. Icynene, an open cell product, is all they say it is. As a builder I have met the chemist who invented the product and sat in his classroom for three days of theory instruction in the use of the product. The product is in my personal home and has been used in many of my projects since 1999. This is the only product I know that the Southern Building Code Congress has approved to be applied between rafters and NO attic ventilation is needed!

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circus

03-16-2007 07:49:57

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shrunken in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

Injected foam was big around 30 years ago. Worked great for 10 years then the cold would go around shrunken foam block. Perhaps by now this problem is solved.

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Chances R

03-16-2007 06:48:39

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

You might want to check with your insurance company first. The company I work for just had a pole barn built with the spray foam insulation and the insurance inspecter was here and he didnt like it. I believe he said it could catch on fire.

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Dave Sherburne NY

03-16-2007 06:33:16

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

I'm wondering about the 5/8" sheetrock hanging on 2X4 rafters. How far apart are the rafters? How wide
is the area they span? With a layer of shingles on
top of the roof, and 5/8" sheetrock on the bottom
thats a lot of weight on a 2X4 rafter.

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steve_ne

03-16-2007 06:15:08

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

I have a very old house. Someone must have sprayed it 20 years ago around the foundation with the spray in foam. Anywere the spray is the wood around the spray is rotten. The water seems to wick in around the wood under the insulation and then has a very hard time drying out. Your roof would need to be almost 100% leak proof to have good results. After see how it works I wouldn't use it.

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bradk

03-16-2007 06:06:56

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

I have a 26x48 shop insulated w/Icynene,and would never use a conventional insulation like fiberglass again.At least for big jobs.

It's everything they say it is.Good stuff!~brad

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Dave in Tx

03-16-2007 05:49:37

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

I have used it a lot. In my opinion 2" is as good as 4". The one I use has been sprying it for 20 yrs, and says that anything over 4" is waste. He does a lot of freezer vaults so I think he knows. I have put 1 to 1.5 inches in shops and can't tell the difference between that and 4". We put it on metal buildings right on the metal and purlins. Costs .90 cents ft for first inch, .40 cents per inch for the rest. anything sprayed on studs that needs to come off, you need to get it off before it cures very long, cause that stuff is hard to get off once it cures. We haven't had trouble with mold, but humidity here is normally real low.

Dave

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Kent in KC

03-16-2007 05:42:51

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

We researched the heck out of insulation for many months before deciding on Icynene foam. In our new house we insulated the underside of the roof sheathing and all exterior (2x6) walls with it.

Reasons: It provides excellent insulation, vapor barrier, seals against infiltration and, unlike other types, if you get a leak in your roof it won't ruin the insulation. Icynene is fire resistant (I tried it).

Check out your contractor, make sure to get references. He does need to mask off/avoid anything you will want to get access to (electrical junction boxes, etc.). Caulk any voids, gaps or cracks before hand.

Enjoy. Ours has been in a week but already I'm amazed at how well it works and how quiet the new house is. Its like a thermos bottle.

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Kent in KC

03-16-2007 05:49:46

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Kent in KC, 03-16-2007 05:42:51

BTW, we talked with a few shingle mfrs and they said there is no problem spraying the underside of the roof deck. Asphalt shingles, and presumably other types, are designed to withstand much more heat than you will experience on your roof. The advantage of insulating the underside of the roof (instead of the attic floor) is that you keep the heat out of the attic instead of storing it up like an oven and then trying to protect your living space from that.

Be aware there are lots of people out there who only know old school ways of doing things and are adamanat in their convictions. Weigh their opinions but also listen to the companies and people that are doing new things and achieving good success. Like one of the other fellas said, its an evolving thing, we will never stop learning better and more economical ways to stay comfortable. Good luck.

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Moline_guy

03-16-2007 05:31:58

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

Thanks for replies. We thought about adding on the 2x4's and just use regular insulation, but was told with foam 2x4 would be enough, and because foam expands it would seal completely. I will definately talk to him about the warranty, and from what i understand once it expands they shave off excess and it will be flush with rafters so sheet rock fits right over. I was told to use 5/8 sheet rock for a higher fire index. Our farm house is 70 years old and shingles are good but if a leak does develop that sounds like it would be trouble, maybe i better check around some more, thanks for your time.

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Oliver Power

03-16-2007 05:03:10

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

Dave from MN is on the money. With the spray foam , you do not need air flow below shingles , so they claim. Foam also acts as vapor barrior. BUT , should you have a leak in roof , it will also hold water. Hot moist air will travel through leak in foam , and then condensate. The foam does hold heat very well. Lots of factors when it comes to insulation/ventilation. It is a continuously evolving subject. And to have a better understanding of this evolving subject , you will have had to evolved with it over time(lets say 25/30 years). Many good solid basic theries. Also factors in which to counterdict them theries.

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Dave from MN

03-16-2007 04:15:01

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

Make darn sure whomever does it had insurance and lifetime guarantee on their work and problems resulting from their work. You cant have any air pockets, voids, curing crack etc, or you will get condensation moisture in your home. You'll end up with mold , even water pools. Trust me on this. Alot of inexperience out there, who do not know all the proper conditions to acheive correct expantionion, filli, and cure. Have it inspected afterwords. Freind had it done and a 2 years later it ALL had to be ripped out, sheetrock, tiling, foam isulation- all of it. He was able to make the insulater pay for it all cause he made sure he had a good warrenty and was insistant on what the giy had to replace. Needless to say , he did not redo it with foam insulation after that.

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Glenn F.

03-16-2007 02:57:58

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

I'm sure the foam will insulate well. However I think there is a concern with having the insulation right up against the roof decking. It does not provide the necessary ventilation for the shingles.

Glenn

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steve n carol

03-15-2007 20:52:22

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

Moline, you wrote, '...and then we will cover with 5/8 sheetrock'...
you do realize that this 2 part closed cell expanding foam ezpands?

And how will you place sheetrock over the finished product? Remember, this stuff expands and finishes itself in a 'bumpy' fashon. It may be better to install the sheetrock first, with 'ports' in which to inject the foam....food for thought....sl

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Sam#3

03-15-2007 21:33:13

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to steve n carol, 03-15-2007 20:52:22

I saw it installed on one of the do-it-yourself shows. Once it's sprayed on and expanded they shave off the excess and then install the dry way.
They can also fill old work wall cavities but it takes some care not to blow the wall apart.

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banjo

03-15-2007 21:22:42

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to steve n carol, 03-15-2007 20:52:22

But if they sprayed too much in it would push the sheet rock off.

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farmerjohninpa

03-15-2007 20:44:29

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

it works well and seals better then any other if put in right. just measure and map out any wiring or splice boxes in the area being coated. comes in handy in the future if ya need to find that run of the wiring.

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John S-B

03-15-2007 20:38:07

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

Hey Moline, can you screw 2x2's to the bottom of the 2x4's so you can get more insulation in?

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dad's88

03-15-2007 21:38:14

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to John S-B, 03-15-2007 20:38:07

Hey, there's a neat idea.

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dds-inc

03-15-2007 20:17:27

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Re: Off topic: spray foam insulation in reply to Moline_guy, 03-15-2007 20:02:18

sounds like a wonderful (but pricey!!!!! !!!!! !) idea to me. We sprayed it in our 2x4 framed shop and it seems to really contain that heat....you really can't beat that sealing area that foam provides...every nook and cranny...

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