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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

High fuel, I love it.

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IaGary

03-08-2007 12:48:07




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Anyone here that farms a few acres to a thousands of acres of corn and beans better not be complaining about fuel prices.

High fuel is the best thing thats happened to farmer in a while.

The higher gas goes the more you want more corn the higher corn goes same for soybeans.

Yes land will go higher and so will inputs but if you play the game right and stay ahead of it you should win.

OK bash away at me I can take it.I have hide not skin.

Gary

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dad's88

03-09-2007 16:06:09




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Well, I've read all of these comments as of 4:30pm CST, and I can't believe no one has hit on a few key things. Heck, I've even tried to throw ya a bone, but I guess I'll have to explain it. First of all this is a demand driven market. All other markets in past years were supply driven. When prices were high in past years it was because of short supply ie: drought ect. When things returned to normal prices declined. It was more of a temporary thing and we always knew it wouldn't last for long. What we have now is keen demand the likes of which we have never seen before, and for as far out on the horizon as we can see it doesn't show any signs of abating. This is just the opposite of the way things have been in the past. To all of you doom and gloom predictors who say we will see a repeat of the 1980's farm crisis, you need to understand the dynamics that were in place then. Many were in debt up to their eyeballs and paying 21%+ interest. When land values crashed thanks in part to a peanut farmer from Georgia, their net worth went right out the window and the house of cards they built collapsed because it was on a shakey foundation to begin with. Today we don't have this problem as most operators are on solid footing. It's an entirely different scenario then it was 25 years ago. I farmed through all that and am glad it's in the past! Ethanol isn't the only answer but it's an important piece of the puzzle as are all of the other things that are in the works right now. It's a proven fuel and I've used it myself in my cars and trucks, all kinds of tractors and even my former combine since 1978. It works. Don't let anyone sell you that static on that outdated report either. Critics love to bring that up thinking you'll be dumb enough to reel in. I don't care what we make it out of or if we even bring some in from South America. It will get people accustomed to using something that's a win-win for everyone. In the mean time I'll finally make a decent return. In all these years of farming it's nice there's light at the end of the tunnel that's NOT an oncoming train!

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1206SWMO

03-09-2007 23:23:49




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to dad's88, 03-09-2007 16:06:09  
Our city friends may be the ones that may bring us down this time.I think that most farmers are in far better financial shape then they are.



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Cmore

03-09-2007 08:50:09




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Yes, and corn will continue to be around 4 bucks right up until the time the Fed Govt stops the 65 cents a gallon subsidy on ethanohl. Then, all the "farmer-owned ethanohal co-ops" will be bough up by ADM/Cargill/Bunge for 10 to 20 cents on the dollar. I'm still not convinced the ethanhol is the "end all be all" for our energy need. Take the fuel to grow, transport, and the nat gas to process and do you have a net gain or loss?? Pretty close, I think. Now, if we could just "grow" hydrogen ready to use in our corn fields, or if we could power alternate fuel plants with sugar cane or fescue,we might have something. Did you know that if EVERY bushel of, lets say, a 12 billion bushel corn crop were converted to ethanol, we'd only produce enough energy for 11% of our annual gasoline consumption. Only 11% if EVERY bushel went to alternate energy. Not to mention other govt payments such as the LDP, which I understand is not in effect, since corn is $4.00 now....Cmore

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barnrat

03-09-2007 13:23:33




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to Cmore, 03-09-2007 08:50:09  
At least Cmore is on the path to common "cents" Looks like me and Cmore are gonna kick back and watch the futures traders and middle men make big bucks on the backs of the corn farmer. Welcome to the world of selling your product by the gallon. I figure them farmer owned ethanol plants will go the the way of the farmer owned dairy cooperatives(can you say DFA).lol



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Kent in KC

03-09-2007 08:28:40




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
What are you going to do when the (oil) well runs dry?

Get a copy of "The Slow Emergency" and read it. Sounds like the Walmart/China/Imported Oil (imported anything) thing will fade away while local farms/ small towns and skilled craftsmen will return. Some key jobs of the future, in my opinion, are: farmer (of any kind), rancher, carpenter, seamstress, blacksmith, mechanic, solar/wind turbine tech, well digger, large animal vet and brewmaster.

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RWWisehart

03-09-2007 08:25:47




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Ethanol plants' demand for corn driving up meat prices. That was not a very smart thing to say.



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Cmore

03-10-2007 08:05:39




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to RWWisehart, 03-09-2007 08:25:47  
It works like this. Corn at 4 bucks. Thus, no profit in feeding cattle. Thus, hugely reduced placements in high plains feedlots where most cattle are fed. In fact, placement down 40 last few weeks. Thus, fewer fat cattle down the road. Thus, fewer fat cattle, higher prices, due to high priced corn that reduced the placements in the first place!! Cmore



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Paul from MN

03-09-2007 06:57:58




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Gary, I hope you are right, but I am pretty sure you are wrong. Input costs have never determined the market price of ag products, especially for major commodities like corn. There are to many sellers and not enough buyers.



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Rich Va

03-09-2007 03:27:28




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Y'all be careful. One year in the latter part of the 70's we were hauling corn out of the field to the elevator for 3.00-3.50 a bu. Next year it was about 1.65. Made some folks sick cause they went hog wild that year planting corn. Oh well ,this area doesn't grow enough corn and soybeans to control the market anyway. I'll just go back to looking at the tractor pictures.



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BOBM25

03-09-2007 09:04:06




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to Rich Va, 03-09-2007 03:27:28  
Yes, thats the problem. Why are grain prices basically the same now as they were 30 YEARS AGO! How is a young guy like me (26) supposed to get going in agriculture these days. My dad and uncles were my age back in the late 70's. They grew 100 bu/ac corn on $50/per acre cash rented land with a $5000 3 year old tractor and STILL got $1.65 at the elevator. Now they can weather out the tougher times and keep farming, they have no overhead!

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dad's88

03-09-2007 02:33:38




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Lets all raise our glasses and ride this demand side train as far as it will take us. ALL ABOARD!



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RickL

03-09-2007 02:24:03




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
evrything runs in cycles always appears to me. Yea corn is finally at a level wher it should have been years ago. But cost just come with it and farm income is same as always basicaly not much more than minumum wage with no Insurance pkg. Rents in my area now are 252 acre and 5165 was last farm sold less than 15 miles from me. Alot of land trade deals going on from Interstate road buyout pushing it up. Only two of the pieces sold have been actually bought back by so called farmers. Alot is going to investors from Florida and other states. Used machinery is coming up that helps us dealer clean up the lots some and scrap steel is now $185ton as of first of week they called us. As far as not selling farms near the cities I would sure think twice and invest it and let it make easy money rather than keep playing in the dirt for so little. The hay farming has been way better for me than when I was doing the 2000 plus acres of crops so that will continue. The reason being is less input costs and I can set my price not what the elevator gives you.
New machinery sales are down and that is always the case we have seen. The higher crops go the less you always sell it is just opposite what you would think. Still have alot of last years carry over of new stuff. But what always also happens is then the new stuff always goes up 10 to 20% and then you can sell the carry over stuff out in actually shorter time than the year before. You have to always guess two three years ahead in dealers sales business sidline. The Blue unit planters went up another 10% this season again. Have fun. It will change thou again and be alot of bankrupt going on again just like last time. I am strongly considering renting rest of my land out now even the rough stuff they think they can get rich on,let them try,not when they pay 150 plus acre for it. too.

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Dick

03-08-2007 21:35:59




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
How can anyone ever get ahead when the prices you are paid for your goods are dictated to you from the buyer? A dairyman sells his milk for whatever the processor wants to pay. If his price of grain, hay, fuel, electricty or replacement stock goes up, will the buyer if his milk pay him more? Yeah right.. You as a consumer, try going to the grocery store and dictating the price you will pay for your groceries. Good luck. It's the same for egg producer, fruit producer, beef producers, grain producers, or any producer of food. You take whatever the processor wants to pay. I really doubt that since fuel prices are going up, a grain producer can request he get more for his grain. If you want to sell your product, you will have to sell it for whatever they feel like paying you. It's only those who are selling their products on the farm or at places like farmers markets or even the internet, they can dictate their price. Also, for those who are big corporate farms, they can nogotiate their prices. It's those in the middle who suffer. Where are most of us?
My two cent.
Dick

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skip33652

03-08-2007 20:37:02




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
I keep hearing all hoopla about alchohol and corn as a fuel and how we will cut fuel imports and reduce the defficet bla bla bla. Ask one question what is corn or how do you grow corn answer corn is water plus sunlight plus fertilizer and where does fertilizer come from natural gas and its imported.corn alcohol has been great for making jobs in this country but wuth present technology wont ever make a dent in oil- natural gas use. might work with other organics like switchgrass or alfalfa. as far as ag in general if you own the land you will do okay.if you have Big $ in bank you will do okay. but if you are the tenant farmer your income in dollars will stay the same over agreat number of years but will eventually get eaten up by inflation I am living proof of that.my income is the same as it was 25 years ago Paul

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skip33652

03-08-2007 20:50:44




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to skip33652, 03-08-2007 20:37:02  
I forgot one point.people dont run away from things if they are profitable ever.even if those things are extremly difficult.if farming is so profitable more people (kids) would be staying or moving back. Instead of running and screaming away.
face it unless the land is paid for and $ in the bank and a father or grandfather that is willing to help next generation along a young person in ag will be just another hired hand> Paul

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rodgernbama

03-08-2007 19:39:42




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
I was reading the other day that corn is not an efficient product to make ethanol. It said that it was a 1:1 return on energy. Sugar cane is supposed to have an 8:1 return. Maybe farmers need to be growing more sugar cane to produce ethanol. Ethanol production is supposed to be what drove up corn prices which in turn drives up meat prices. If our government took away farm subsdies we could'nt afford to buy food.

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IaGary

03-08-2007 20:25:27




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to rodgernbama, 03-08-2007 19:39:42  
I borrowed this from a post I put on Todays Tractor about 2 weeks ago----


My costs for an acre of production is $160 dollars for seed ,chemicals and fertilizer.
And you know the costs are not all energy related. But we will say they are.So that is 80 gal of fuel.

I use about 5 gal of diesel per acre to grow and harvest.I use about 5 gal per acre to dry including electric converted to gals.It takes about 5 gal an acre for deleivery from my farm to ethanol plant.

The plant uses about 40 gal an acre to produce the ethanol at the plant.And we will say another 5 gal an acre to deliever to the gas pumps.

So 80+5+5+5+40+5=140 gal to produce

200 bushel of corn to the acre will produce 540 gal of ethanol.

Which is higher 540 from an acre or 140 to produce that 540 gallons.

I could be wrong on that 40 gallon at the plant but we know it can't be much more than that


Gary

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Jerry/MT

03-08-2007 19:13:23




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Opinions are like belly buttons - everybody's got one!
Here's mine. All this economic globalization that we have experienced in the last several years has been made possible by CHEAP ENERGY PRICES.

When I was kid in Indiana, you hardly ever saw a piece of lettuce after September because it was produced way over in Florida or California, which to my way of thinking at that time may as well have been the moon. No steel workers wife could afford to pay what it would have cost to get a head of lettuce from Florida or California. Then along came the interstate highway system and with that, along with CHEAP FUEL, you coud get lettuce from the Imperial Valley year around at a reasonable price. But you couldn't get annual crops like apples in say July because they would have to be shipped from the Southern Hemisphere and that was too expensive and took too long. Disposable incomes rises and along comes high speed container ships that run on CHEAP FUEL( it takes a lot of energy to move those behemoths through the water at 35 knots!) and big cargo aircraft that run on CHEAP FUEL and now you can get apples in July from Chile for a reasonable price. Not only that, you can get apples from China to compete with American apples because of CHEAP FUEL (and cheap Chinese labor and no regulations).

I worked in the airplane industry for 34+ years. When I started in 1965, not everybody could afford to fly and so the relative number of avaiable seat miles flown yearly was small. But disposable income rose and airplane fuel efficiency rose and the cost per seat mile went down and traffic increased. Then the airlines were deregulated and airplane efficiency improved some more, and competition forced lower prices to where peole get on airplanes like thay used to ride the city bus. And by the way, CHEAP FUEL helped make that possible,too.

What do you think will happen when FUEL AIN'T CHEAP? Well, I think airplanes, which need an energy dense fuel will continue to use Jet A and the price of fuel will be reflected in the ticket price just like it is today. No more $39 one way fares, maybe $390 one way fares. Your fares will be based on the distance you fly so you fly further you pay more.
Chinese apples will cost $1.00/pound more than domestically produced apples because of shipping costs. Same with summer apples from Chile. Maybe the cost will get so high that the demand for summer aples will drop and it'll be like the old days, when you eat the last stored apple, there ain't no more til the next domestic apple harvest.
Imperial Valley lettuce will probably be reasonable because lettuce will be hauled on trains where ton mile costs are cheaper than trucks.
My point is that high energy costs will force more local production because the labor advantage in foreign countries won't be big enough to offset the transportation costs, (driven by high energy prices) to the big markets which are located right in the good ol' USA. Oh we may have to give up having two cars and a pickup, ATV's, RV's, trips to Timbuktu, etc, because we gotta' eat. Maybe we'll bring manufacturing back to this country to produce products for our domestic market because it costs too much to ship stuff from the Far East or where ever.

Just my opinion.

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HuberOR

03-08-2007 18:52:07




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Try operating a DAIRY and see if you love it.



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IaGary

03-08-2007 19:00:21




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to HuberOR, 03-08-2007 18:52:07  
Have you tried distillers grain?

That will cut your feed costs.



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Iowa Jim

03-09-2007 07:06:34




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 19:00:21  
Gary:

DDGS is NOT a substitute for corn!!!!!

Contrary to what the politicians say, it is a PROTEIN source. The removal of corn from dairy diets requires another starch source usually more expensive than corn.

Jim



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miss_mirabel.milan@yahoo.

03-09-2007 07:09:23




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to Iowa Jim, 03-09-2007 07:06:34  
miss_mirabel.milan@yahoo.com

From: Mirabel Milan
Abidjan Cote d'ivoire West Africa.

Introduction
Please do reply me through my private mail box above and also send me your direct E-mail to reach you .
It is my pleasure to contact you for a business venture which I intend to establish in your country. Though I have not met with you before but I believe, one has to risk confiding in succeed sometimes in life. There is this huge amount of eight million U.S dollars($8,000,000.00) which my late Father kept for me with a Fiduciary Fund Holder in Abidjan before he was assasinated by the Rebels persons during this war in Cote d'ivoire.
Now I have decided to invest these money in your country or anywhere safe enough outside Africa for security and political reasons. I want you to help me claim and retrieve this fund from the Fiduciary Fund Holders and transfer it into your personal account in your country for investment purposes on these areas:
1) Telecommunication 2) The Transport Industry 3) Five Star Hotel 4) Real Estate Management
If you can be of an assistance to me I will be pleased to offer to you 15% of the total fund for your assistance to me.
I await your soonest response.
Respectfully yours, Miss.Mirabel Milan

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JoeBob/IN

03-08-2007 19:42:18




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 19:00:21  
That's a negative! Not here anyways. Location is in South Bend, IN where the first and for a long time only ethanol plant in Indiana is. I asked about distillers for our operation and it actually cost $5/ton more than corn when corn was at $3.75 cash.



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IaGary

03-08-2007 20:18:19




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to JoeBob/IN, 03-08-2007 19:42:18  
I don't know howto figure feed value but you can get gluten deliever to your farm here for $25 to$30 a ton.

Thats less than 2 cents a pound. Corn is 7 to 8 cents now.

But as I said I don't know the feed value but I know farmers here are selling there corn and buying gluten to finish cattle.

Gary



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4010guy

03-08-2007 16:47:36




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Well gary, ya just might be on to something there. I remember a few years back when wheat prices were high and fuel and NH3 was rock bottom telling my neighbor that with all this cheep fertiliser that this low energy prises were going to come back to bite us in the azz and by god it did exactly that to.



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Hugh MacKay

03-08-2007 16:24:06




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Gary: You are right but for all the wrong reasons. First we must make air travel and air freight 100% user pay, no more of this idea that tax payers provide air terminals. Then you let the fuel go to the point it drives every airline and long haul trucking company into bankruptcy.

That will put our travel and freight back on water and rail. Then and only then will we all prosper.

Now, watch the airline employees and long haul truckes take shots at me. They don't realize they'll have better jobs moving freight from ocean, lake and railhead terminals to the consumer. We will also see one heck of a lot less offshore products.

Once air transportation is gone, only cash crop farmers like you will have the time to take a vacation and get any distance by water or rail.

We see in the news every day, all our major metropolitan areas complaining about car commuters fouling their air. Hell their airports are belching out more emmissions every day. Who's on the airplanes everyday but overpaid excutives that could be doing all that business via the internet, and taxpayers wouldn't have to be subsidizing their air travel.

Now, you can be as optimistic as you like about your farming, but you damn well ain't going to prosper until all those overpaid folks stop taking more than their share of the economy. Corn and beans may be up my friend, but they haven't caught up with your inputs.

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IaGary

03-08-2007 16:41:57




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-08-2007 16:24:06  
Not going to argue the transportation thing but I will those input costs verus income.

Income verus inputs are not where they were in the early 70's but they are close.

My first crop year was 1975 and I cleared $125 dollars an acre on a 50/50 lease agreement.

On a 50/50 this year if I had all my grain contracted for fall, with a 2006 yield average I would net $190 an acre.

But the cost of living is more than twice as high now as then.

Gary

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Hugh MacKay

03-08-2007 17:08:54




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 16:41:57  
Gary: And just why is your cost of living twice as high? Just think of all those excutives your keeping airborne, when they could do it all from their little computer terminial.



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IaGary

03-08-2007 17:29:38




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-08-2007 17:08:54  
Yup and all the other money floating around.

I can't think of a thing that at at least twice as high now as it was in the 70's except one thing grain prices.

Corn was 2.50 then and only 4.00 today.

Cars were 6000 then and are 18000 or more today.

Even cereal is twice as high but the grain in it didn't do it.

New tractor then 17,000 today 80,000.

Poeples wages 8.00 then 20.00 now.

Gallon of milk 1.90 then 2.50 now. Hummmm

4.50 soybeans 7.00 today.

Land 1000 then 3500 today.

NH3 125 a ton 450 today.

.80 gas in 75, 2.50 today

Have I made my point.

So if high gas will drive up grain I'm all for it. Whatever it takes to get grain up.

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Hugh MacKay

03-09-2007 01:57:19




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 Re: 1206SWMO presented most of my thunder for this in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 17:29:38  
Gary: Cost of living twice what it was in 1975, your full of S#!@. At the point of last evening posting I had Canadian figures, now I see US aren't much different. If you compound the consumer price index since 1975, you will find the cost of living has actually gone between 4 and 5 times what it was in 1975.

Before you become too cocky, I see an unprecended number of acres of farmland for sale. I also see an exceptional large number of farm equipment dispersal auctions. I'm also told the banker is saying no to another crop in a great many cases.

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dad's88

03-09-2007 02:22:02




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 Re: 1206SWMO presented most of my thunder for this in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-09-2007 01:57:19  
Hugh, you might want to get a current farm paper. The one you're reading is from 1985.



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Hugh MacKay

03-09-2007 02:50:03




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 Re: 1206SWMO presented most of my thunder for this in reply to dad's88, 03-09-2007 02:22:02  
You may be right. I never could figure how the government came up with those figures. They always claimed to have inflation licked, "Oh how wonderful we are". I guess I just don't buy what's in that government goodie bag that determines the index. Maybe I have expensive tastes, my wife doesn't think so.



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1206SWMO

03-08-2007 22:54:52




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 17:29:38  
Gary, I'm on both sides of the fence as I both farm and work a town job.I'm in an area of mostly $10-12 per hour jobs.There are very few $20 per hour jobs here.$3.00 fuel really puts the whammy on things here.Just ask the local car dealers.This area does better on $2.00 fuel.

I think that in the long run $3.00-3.50 corn would be in everybody's best interests.We can all make a decent profit at that price.We dont need it going to $5-6.00 per bushel.I farm with all older machinery and it costs me $200 per acre to put out corn.On ground I own I can make $280 profit on 120 bu corn at $4.00.

In 1972 land was $200 per acre here.By 1980 it was $1000-1200 per acre.In 1972 cash rent was $20 per acre.By 1980 it was $40-50 per acre and then came the 1980's with Drought and 20% interest which ruined tons of farmers in this area.Too many bought high priced land in the late 1970's.

Tons of money was made here in the 1970's as grain prices were pretty decent and input costs were cheap..Beans got to $12 per bushel in the winter of 1972-73.Wheat was near $5.00 per bushel in 1974 and in 1979.I had beans contracted for $9.28 in the fall of 1977.In 1979 I cleared $300 per acre profit on wheat and double crop beans.This was on $40 per acre cash rent ground.

In 1976 I cut 25 acres of milo and wrote a check for $6076 for a new 1976 Chev K-20 pickup.

Cash rent has been $60 per acre but now some are offering $100 per acre and we've had drought after drought here.2006 was a real poor year here.Just 4-5 years ago land was $1000 per acre and now its $2-3,000 as the outsiders are coming in.

I think that we are in for a wild ride and I dont want to see it turn in to another 1980's..

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Hugh MacKay

03-09-2007 02:02:42




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to 1206SWMO, 03-08-2007 22:54:52  
Blaine: Am I right, I knew it would hit me before I finished typing. Very well writen, you saved me a lot of typing this morning.



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IaGary

03-09-2007 03:36:51




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-09-2007 02:02:42  
If interest hits 20% again then all bets are off on all that I have said.

I too paid 17% interest on $2000 land in the mid 80's.Thats when I went to work in town to put food on the table.

But if all you guys think that we would be better off with 1.00 gas and 2.00 corn then so be it.

But for the most part farmers are better off with 3.00 gas and 3.00 corn.

If crude goes way down again so will corn and the ethanol will bust.

So in my thinking we need high fuel to make this work.

That is why I like high fuel.

Gary

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Tim(nj)

03-09-2007 15:30:54




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-09-2007 03:36:51  
Tell me Gary, have the rent wars started in your area yet because of the $4.00 corn? I know in some places bidding wars have started, and people tend to get blinded to what they are doing and pay so much rent for more land so that they can harvest more of that $4.00 corn that their return isn"t any better or sometimes even worse than $2.00 corn. Good managers won"t fall into the trap, but for every good manager there"s 3 who think they are smarter, but they only outsmart themselves. Now fertilizer is going through the roof because of demand for corn ground. Everybody in the production chain besides the farmer wants a bigger piece of that $4.00 a bushel pie, and I fear we won"t make any more profit on corn than we were at $2.00.

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1206SWMO

03-09-2007 07:59:42




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-09-2007 03:36:51  
Gary, I agree that $3.00-3.50 corn is needed but I think that we will be better off with $2.00-2.25 fuel.None of us that farm want to see $2.00 corn again but the consumer doesnt want to see $3.00 plus fuel either.We need a happy medium somewhere.

Like I said I live in an area of low wages and $3.00 fuel kills the economy here.Lots cant seem to quit driving so all their money goes towards fuel instead of other items.Lots gets put on charge cards.It was just a few short years ago when fuel was less than $1.00 per gallon.Things need to go up in moderation instead of doubling overnight.That can lead to huge problems on down the road.

Our auto industry is tottering on the brink of disaster.Their vehicles are getting too high priced and are selling poorly.Their profit is all in the high priced stuff that isnt selling good.

In the early 1980's the farmers took the hit but this time it may be our urban friends that take the hit.Far too many are head over heels in debt and are living on the edge..Any glitch in the economy could take lots of them down.Credit card debt is staggering and savings are at an all time low.

I work a good paying factory job but I'm taking home the same money that I was 4 years ago.The way things sound I will be taking home the same money in 2011.Why is that?Its because health insurance premiums are going up faster than our wages are.Our buying power is fastly being eroded by excessive health care costs.They are expected to double again in the next 10 years.Our country faces a tremendous problem here.

As a farmer I think that we had better enjoy high grain prices while they last.I fear that our input costs will rapidly rise to meet $4.00 corn and that we will soon be making the same profit margains as we were with $2.00. corn.

I think the farmer that owns his land free and clear is going to be lots better off than the ones that rent.Too many will run land cash rents to the sky and take the profit right out of farming.I hear of cases where the land owner is taking back his land to farm it himself or is hiring it custom farmed.

I remember 1974 when after a having a record year farming in 1973,that everything from JD tractors to sugar got in short suppply.They had a controlled shortage to drive the price of stuff out of sight and it worked.You couldnt even buy fuel on weekends.

I think that things are going to be real interesting in the next few years.I think we'd better buckle the seat belt and hang on!

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Hugh Mackay

03-09-2007 12:47:23




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to 1206SWMO, 03-09-2007 07:59:42  
AMEN.



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Hugh MacKay

03-08-2007 17:51:18




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 17:29:38  
Gary: I think you are a bit low on some of todays prices, but then I may have expensive tastes.

There is a land auction within sight of my place on Sat. The pundants are saying it's going to hit $7,000. per acre. Let me assure you it will not be me bidding it that high. I personally don't think it will go that high.



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Don-Wi

03-08-2007 22:43:38




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-08-2007 17:51:18  
Well, we've had offers for $35,000/acre for our farm, but it was for development. We told them to go &%$@ themselves and we'll come to them when we're ready to sell. That was 4 1/2 years ago when my Grandma died (she owned the land)

Our farm is screwed, we've got development on all 4 sides and it's only a matter of time. It's now owned by my 4 brothers and myself, and my dad and I farm it. My only hope is to try and get my cousin's farm a little farther oput and have dad help me run the land out there. No dairy for me, they just turn into a huge money pit when milk doesn't pay enough and there isn't enough land to feed them without buying more.

Donovan from Wisconsin

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rrlund

03-08-2007 16:10:29




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Well,I've done OK my whole life with the philosophy of walk when others are running and slow and steady wins the race. I can't tell you how many fly by nites have come into this neighborhood trying to make a quick buck on Nixons $6.00 wheat,high cattle cycles,high bean prices etc,I just keep plugging away and making it. No sense trying to over think anything. Like one old guy said,"farmers get into trouble when they go from trying to make a living to trying to make money".

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MF294-4

03-08-2007 15:53:46




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
High corn prices have already raised land value. Some good dirt, sold for 5,5075 an acre yesterday. Scares me, but I'm a pessimist.



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e

03-08-2007 18:53:41




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to MF294-4, 03-08-2007 15:53:46  
People who are paying more for land just because the prices are up one year are just plain dumb. Honestly, we all know the price will go back down, but those payments won't. You can only make so much money off of one acre of land.

What is scary is I read the third article in two weeks stating the exact steps are being followed that lead to the farm crash in the early 80's. What goes up must come down. Look at the housing market....they are forcasting 2 million home forclosures this year....yikes!

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NEIADan

03-08-2007 15:40:43




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
High fuel has some shaky ground to stand on. Granted being a cattle feeder our profits never looked so good because of the cheap cost of feeders. But, I sit and watch many good cows going to slaughter because of the por feeder prices. spells out to be good in the short term. But my family likes to eat as do many others and high priced food is going to accelerate the conglomerate take over of our meat markets in this country. Lose the small guys and see how long Tyson will sell you affordable meat.

The other consequence is how our economy is more vulnerable to a depressionary crash. What happens when the middle east decides to sell fuel at $40 a barrel. This false economy of the corn market suddenly drops land prices by 1/2 or more. Again opening the door for corporate farms who are better leveraged to buy the the small guy out for a quarter on the dollar. Of course they will be financed by foreign investors after the blood bath of ethanol plants and rural banks go under.

We need fair markets but i vote to keep my consumer happy or soon I have no market

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IaGary

03-08-2007 15:55:45




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to NEIADan, 03-08-2007 15:40:43  
Been at this farming thing for 34 years now.

And the consumer has been happy 33 1/2 of those 34 years.

Now if I farm till I'm 84 and the prices stay up we will balance out.

Ask the overseas people what % of there income they spend for food.

You may have to give up your boat or snowmobile.
But they will still eat.

Gary



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Dave from MN

03-08-2007 15:35:32




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
I stated a quite a while back, when everyone was saying to get out of farming cause of $1.50 corn. I stated my belief that some day in near future crop prices are gonna go high again and when it does the guys that have been grabing up land, outbidding other less backed farmers, securing land rent contracts and such will reap the benefits. They are and they will. I really regret not getting started 3 years ago when I originally planned to, but I listened to my renter that said I pay more than you can make. Isnt true. I am not gonna bash any big operators that are growing through good descisions and Honest/Fair land aquisitions, but there is a reason many big business owners have been selling and getting into agriculture, or are backing a certain farmer and receiving a extra no hands on income. There is only SO much land, the worlds population is growing, In the future food, will be in high demand, those that stay in farming will reap the benefits, those who chose to get out, wont have the assets to start up again. This is my beleif, and I am hearing from my freinds that farm anywhere from 12 acres up to 3000 acres. My freinds tell me Farm your own ground, youll make money, the big renters in the area tell ya, you cant make no money-let me rent it. I hope all farmers prosper, but I am in no way a fan of corperate farms. Watch milk prices the next 3 years.

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RN

03-08-2007 15:19:54




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Amish may be chuckling, Horsepower to them is real, fuel(gas,diesel) prices minimal concern. Crop prices will help them some, cattle prices up will also help. Time to check out the old harness. Maybe buy back horse cultivator sold at auction. Watch the bookkeeping. RN



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Walt Davies

03-08-2007 15:04:16




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Actually gas at $3.00 per gallon is cheaper than it was in the early 60's at 35 cents. I know its hard to take it now but someday our grandchildren will wonder how we got along on that cheap $3.00 stuff.
Walt



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sojono

03-08-2007 16:46:16




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to Walt Davies, 03-08-2007 15:04:16  
walt i have said that all along in early 60s i worked 1 hour for 3 gallons of gas and now i can buy 9 gallons for an hour work and i still have the same kind of job.



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kestrel CT

03-08-2007 13:18:13




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Here's proof of your farmland price prediction in today's Wall Street Journal.

Sell now and move to Wales !



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IH2444

03-08-2007 13:13:18




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Well it is obvious that $3 gas does not convince people to conserve. Perhaps $4 gas will.



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georgeky

03-08-2007 13:12:44




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Not all farmers raise corn. With high corn prices the price of my cows will go down. That means corn I raise to feed my livestock will cost more to raise will cost me more to produce due to fuel prices. High fuel prices also cause fertilizer price's to go up. The corn farmers deserve to make more than 1.80 per bushel, but someone has to pay the price. I also raise tobacco and it is down 50 cents per pound since the buy out, and requires lots of fertilizer. What is good for some isn't always good for everyone. In the past when corn goes up so does production then the price will come back down due to supply and demand. Just a few thoughts.

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IaGary

03-08-2007 14:49:41




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to georgeky, 03-08-2007 13:12:44  
Cattle will go up and already are starting to go up.

Here in Iowa and other places cattle are raised on land that will grow corn.

Some will sell the herds cause they can make more on corn.

Now the cattle numbers went down so the cattle price will increase.

Supply and demand.

If corn stays up for awhile the cow numbers will go down. I'm am one that may sell the cows.

Gary



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georgeky

03-08-2007 15:41:58




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 14:49:41  
Gary. I think the only thing keeping cattle high right now is there is still a shortage of cattle. Historicly when corn goes up cattle go down. We will have to wait and see what happens. Not to worry though nobody wants farmers to make much and will more than likely keep it that way. We have been sold out to foreign country's.



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IaGary

03-08-2007 16:11:12




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to georgeky, 03-08-2007 15:41:58  
Historically corn has never stayed above $3.00 for more than 1 year at a time. If it does this time cattle will follow high grain.

For that reason cattle numbers will go down if grain stays up for 2 to 3 years.

The writter of this cannot be held liable if you make decsisions based on his comments.



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Hard Knocks

03-08-2007 13:10:02




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
I wouldn't be too happy to quick with with the talks taking place in Brazil today.Brazilian sugar cane ethanol comes in way cheaper than US produced.The only thing keeping them from taking over the US market is the 54 cent/gal tarriff which will probably be lifted in the near future.



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Ross

03-08-2007 13:08:19




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Gary, you're entitled to your opinion but I think if crop prices go to high consumers- corporate and individuals will simply find overseas providers at lower prices and the American farmers will have to lower their prices to compete. In the mean time inputs and land costs will have gone up and then what will farmers do? Name one American product that doesn't face overseas competition? Now name one American product that has lost or is losing to overseas competition. It took me a lot less time to answer the second question.
Just my opinion Ross

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dad's88

03-08-2007 13:51:31




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to Ross, 03-08-2007 13:08:19  
FYI, farmers don't "set" the price of anything.



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Ross

03-08-2007 14:03:53




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to dad's88, 03-08-2007 13:51:31  
Your right they don't "set the prices" I guess I should have said "accept lower prices". So sorry



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Mike M

03-08-2007 13:03:13




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
It all sounds like that's the way it should work and would of worked out fine that way years ago if the government would stay out of it !



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dds-inc

03-08-2007 12:54:54




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 Re: High fuel, I love it. in reply to IaGary, 03-08-2007 12:48:07  
Well, i'm one to take everything as an "i don't know" thing. anything can happen.



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