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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Tire air pressure

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IaGary

03-05-2007 04:38:45




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After reading Joe response to Allan below I thought we better discuss this a little.

When I got my first set of radials in 78 on a 1086 they told me to run 18 lbs pressure in them.

After 3000 hours in about 85 the sidewalls broke out on them. Tread was about 2/3s gone.

Put on a new set and they said to run 20lbs. So the sidewalls won't crack again.They ran 4000 hours.Tread was gone.

Now my tire man saids that they say 24 lbs is where you want to be.

What have you guys heard?

I know you will ruin them below 18 lbs.

Gary

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iowa_tire_guy

03-05-2007 20:08:17




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to IaGary, 03-05-2007 04:38:45  
Interesting posts from this question. It is a waste of money to add ballast to radial tires. If you have to use ballast then buy good bias tires because by adding ballast to radials you just made them bias. If you are going to use the load inflation chart then the best is to not guess at weight but set it up to work and put it on a scale. As for the lowest possible pressure to run it is a risky business. All tires lose 1 pound of pressure for every 10 degree drop of tempature. Set your pressure at 15 on a 90 degree day and it will be 10 lbs on a 40 degree day. So tire guys will add a few lbs knowing that very few farmers will check their tires more than once a year if then. My advice Gary is that you seem to be running plenty of pressure and your cracking problems are probably due more to the brand of tire run than pressure. I can't see that with duals you need more than 18 lbs but if I were selling you tires I would want you to run higher pressure. Also radial tires have made huge improvements in since 20 years ago.

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no tools

03-05-2007 15:20:46




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to IaGary, 03-05-2007 04:38:45  
Gary go to firestone ag tires.
view dimension and load rating call for 23-24 psi loaded.we been running 28 psi 18.4R-38



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JoeBob/IN

03-05-2007 19:16:12




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to no tools , 03-05-2007 15:20:46  
What tractors are you using and what do you have attached to have that kind of axle loads? At 28 psi according to Firestone you could have a load of 7400 lbs per tire or 14,800 on the rearend. That is about all most 2wd tractors weigh and there has to be some weight on the front axle. I ask not to prove anyone wrong but want you to get the most out of the radials you are using.



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No tools

03-06-2007 03:32:15




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to JoeBob/IN, 03-05-2007 19:16:12  
I got Enought junk tires to know that anything less than that isn't enought.air will not kill a tire.no air will.thats what got firestone sued people runnig flat tires.running them on my golf cart!



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Don-Wi

03-06-2007 01:09:47




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to JoeBob/IN, 03-05-2007 19:16:12  
Ya also gotta consider what you're hauling. If you have a big manure spreader on the back, say 400+ Bu., that's a lot of extra weight on a tractor that already has 8-10,000 lbs on the rear tires. Our Oliver 1855 weighs 13,300 with the ballast in the rears, the rops/canopy and the fornt weights. I'd imagine atleast 8,000 of that is on the rear.

Donovan from Wisconsin



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JoeBob/IN

03-06-2007 05:26:44




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to Don-Wi, 03-06-2007 01:09:47  
Ok, lets say it has a rear axle load of 10,000 lbs with the attached spreader. And I assume you have 18.4R38's. If not radials then you must run at least 12 psi! So there is 5000 lbs per tire. According to the chart you can run as low as about 15 psi with singles. And it is suggested that you don't use fluid in radials but add wheel weights rather.



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JoeBob/IN

03-05-2007 13:23:13




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to IaGary, 03-05-2007 04:38:45  
I assume this is in reply to my post so I will try to prove why I said what I did. The link is from the Firestone site. Lets use my Case 2390 for an example. It weighs roughly 14000 lbs with the weights on her. And I guess that it is balanced to about 40/60% front/rear. Could be off there but close enough for now. So 60% of the 14,000 is 8400 lbs on the rear axle and 4200 per tire. It has 20.8R38's so according to the chart I should run at 8 psi since you can load a max of 4300 per tire at 8 psi. Even if it is balanced to 30/70 we would run at about 11 psi. But I run duals so according to Firestone we have to drop our max axle loads 12% per tire. At the 30/70 the per tire load is 2450 + 12% so we get a max load of 2744 and our psi would be as low as 6! Now there are cases where you would add pressure such as high road speeds, furrow plowing, and hillsides to increase stability. Remember that you have to add the weight of any attached equipment but not drawn equipment. And you shouldn't load radial tires but rather add cast weight, it doesn't allow the tire to flex properly! Look at the Firestone, Goodyear, and Michelin site carefully and you will see that radials are great tires when used correctly.

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JoeBob/IN

03-05-2007 13:33:34




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 Michelin has a nice pressure calculator in reply to JoeBob/IN, 03-05-2007 13:23:13  
Check it out, but watch cause they transform all standard sizes to metric so you have to pay attention. Just punch in you size, calculate your axle loads yourself and read the pressure they recommend.



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BobHnwOh

03-05-2007 12:41:18




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to IaGary, 03-05-2007 04:38:45  
Gary,what brand tire did you have trouble with sidewalls,TIA,Bob.



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IaGary

03-05-2007 13:43:57




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to BobHnwOh, 03-05-2007 12:41:18  
BF Goodrich were the first radials I had.
They split all the way around the rim on the bead of the tire.Never blew but was afraid they would.


Armstrong were the 4000 hour ones. They rotted after 19 years with about 25% of the tread left.

I also had trouble with spinning the tires on the rim at low pressure. At 22 lbs they still squat more than a bias at 16 lbs. Plenty of footprint still.


I may not get all the traction due me with 20+ lbs of presure but when you use it to haul bales on the 3pt one day and pull a grain wagon,with no hitch weight,the next you cannot keep putting air in and out every other day. I use a lot of heavy 3pt equipment thru out the year.

Gary

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JoeBob/IN

03-05-2007 15:08:52




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to IaGary, 03-05-2007 13:43:57  
Armstrongs are horrible about sidewall cracking. I agree with not changing air everyother day but even with the bale on you should be able to drop pressure according to the charts I provided. To my knowledge they have somewhat solved the rim spin that used to happen on the first radials.



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otto stook

03-05-2007 07:17:28




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to IaGary, 03-05-2007 04:38:45  
the bossman has a jd 9520 4wd,,has those 800-38 metrics,duals,has 6 lb air in each tire,,also has 2 8430 mfwds,,with 480 -50s runs them at 18 to 20,,more air when on grain carts,,,,,



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billonthefarm

03-05-2007 06:34:36




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to IaGary, 03-05-2007 04:38:45  
15psi seems to work good for me. The four wheel drive I tend to let them be a little lower in the spring when I dont have any extra ballast but in the fall I will bump them up a little but because even with 8 tires the extra weight and added pull makes a difference. The magnums pretty much are at 15psi unless I have the snow blower on one or some other heavy 3pt load. The 1086 never sees any field work and I leave them at 15psi and it seems to really make it ride better on the road and they dont show much wear. It would seem your tire guy should know but I cant think a radial tire is very effective at 24psi. bill

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Cliff Neubauer

03-05-2007 06:10:10




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to IaGary, 03-05-2007 04:38:45  
I'm pretty sure we aren't running anymore than 14 psi in any of our radials and I think we are running 8-10 psi on the 5488. We got close to 6,000 hours out of the BF Goodrich radials that came on our 1086 and we've got a couple sets of Firestone's with more than 4,000 hours and I don't think any of them have ever had more than 18 psi in them. It seems to me like at 24 psi your loosing all the benefits of running radials, radials need lower pressure's to get a bigger footprint and that's not going to happen at 24 psi. We have weighted most of our tractors and will adjust the tire pressure several times a year for different jobs or varying hitch weight.

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Allan In NE

03-05-2007 06:06:59




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to IaGary, 03-05-2007 04:38:45  
I don't know sic-'em about radials, but I do know what is and what isn't acceptable.

My tires had 15 lbs and that old tractor would get to gallopin' at road speeds so darned bad that ya couldn't drive the thing. An up and down motion at the rear end.

Neighbor has a big White that does the same darned thing. It "lopes" at certain road speeds.

Like I say, I pushed 'em up to 21 lbs and it really straightened it out. Still can feel it a little at around 22 mph.

Think maybe your tire man is right; perhaps they do need to be at 24 lbs?

Allan

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buickanddeere

03-05-2007 09:03:36




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to Allan In NE, 03-05-2007 06:06:59  
How much liquid ballast in the tires, that can make a difference?



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buickanddeere

03-05-2007 05:50:32




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to IaGary, 03-05-2007 04:38:45  
Read this link. It contains data from 100's of thousands of hours lab and on farm experience.

>Link

>Link If the tire plys are too light or inflation pressure too low for the speed, sidehill loads, weight, ballast type and HP applied to the ground for the tire size. Yes you will ruin any tire. To much liquid ballast will make a tire prone to blow outs and punctures. The worn off tread sounds like too much wheel slippage. Has this tractor been pulling hard without using duals? What HP is the tractor and what tire size, plys, make & model. Is the tractor parked outside or always shedded?

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PJBROWN

03-05-2007 05:09:15




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to IaGary, 03-05-2007 04:38:45  
I have never ran radials as far as I know ,but my father in law has a tractor with tubeless radials and he loves them. He claims they are loaded..... how would you load tubeless tires??? Most of the time it looks like they are low on air. He claims he has 20 pounds in them.



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Steven@AZ

03-05-2007 05:50:16




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 Re: Tire air pressure in reply to PJBROWN, 03-05-2007 05:09:15  
The radial tires on our 2590 are loaded with CaCl with no tubes. Remember that rust is iron oxide. You need oxygen to rust - if the CaCl solution covers the rim at all times there is no way for oxygen to get to the steel to rust it. Also the fact that there is only so much oxygen in the tire to begin with that if it did begin to rust, it wouldn't do much.

No oxygen = no rust.

I believe our radials have around 20 psi in them. Sidewalls look good, but the hay field stubble is really cutting into them between the tread blocks.

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