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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Synthetic Oil Change Interval

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Short Round

02-10-2007 15:29:36




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I see some of you guys have switched to the synthetic oil in your trucks. In view of the extra cost do you extend you oil change intervals or keep changing at the normal 3 or 5 thousand mile interval? I have been thinking about changeing over but not sure if it is worth it.




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John M

02-11-2007 06:20:50




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Short Round, 02-10-2007 15:29:36  
Without the proper filtering, I wouldnt run any oil over what the maker recommends. I run 15-40 Rotella in my F350 for 5000, with an extra filter I would go 7500 -10000 without worrying, so why waste money on high dollar synthetics.



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Jon Hagen

02-11-2007 14:44:13




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to John M, 02-11-2007 06:20:50  
My experience with a good POA based synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or Amsoil is that the ring seal is much superior to what is achived with mineral oil. This results in much less blow by garbage getting into the oil to dirty it, The oil does not get dirty nearly as fast, so you can often extend the oil change by 400% and still not have a damaging amount of contaminants in the oil.

Because of this superior ring seal with synthetic oil, oil consumption is often 1/2 or less of what it would be with mineral oil.

One experience with a little Nash 196 engine showed me how even a "hurt" engine can survive for a long time with a superior lubricant in it like Mobil 1. The Nash 196 has a bad reputation of being an engine with so much crankshaft flex that it is very hard on main bearings. The one I was driving had so much main bearing rumble that it would scare you to rev it up while under the hood. The main journals were worn and really should have been ground to get the journals straight and round, problem was that no undersize bearings were avalible for this obsolete engine. I did manage to find a set of standard bearings to put on the worn crank. The worn crank immediatly started to destroy the new bearings and the main rumble started to return within a few hundred miles. As a bit of a desperate experment, I drained the mineral oil and replaced it with Mobil 1 synthetic oil. This quieted the bearing noise which did not return during the 30,000 miles I put on that old engine over the next dozen years before finally putting the car into storage. In severe operating conditions,like bearings running on a badly worn crank, the POA based synthetic oil really showed how superior a lubricant it is.

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John M

02-11-2007 15:07:04




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Jon Hagen, 02-11-2007 14:44:13  
Im happy you think synthetics are Gods gift to the world, and you apparently have the money to continue to buy the products or you wouldnt be. I have had my experiences with synthetics, and I see no advnatage to using them.Yea,yea "I did this and I did that" well congradulations bud,Im happy for you. But when the physical evidence is presented to me in person and it proves itself to me I will change my mind.ike I said,Im not going to try and start any arguments, this is just my opinion and my real world experience with synthetics.

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Jon Hagen

02-11-2007 16:49:08




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to John M, 02-11-2007 15:07:04  
GRUMPY !!!! :-))



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John M

02-11-2007 16:50:05




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Jon Hagen, 02-11-2007 16:49:08  
Yea a little! tired of being cooped up in this house! Sorry bud!



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Jon Hagen

02-11-2007 17:02:22




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to John M, 02-11-2007 16:50:05  
No problem, and don't ever be afraid to voice your honest opinion. :-)



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JoeBob/IN

02-11-2007 05:56:22




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Short Round, 02-10-2007 15:29:36  
I am in no way an Amsoil dealer or rep but would suggest looking at their website and compare to anyother oil. As far as I know Amsoil is the only oil that warranties extended drain intervals of 15k for severe useage and 25k for normal driving and while the vehicle is under warranty or not. Mobil 1 suggests you follow the OEM's intervals while the vehicle is under warranty. This is from their site.

For vehicles covered by a warranty, follow the vehicle's oil life sensor or the oil change interval recommended in your owner's manual. Follow your owner's manual if the vehicle is operated in any of the following severe services: racing or commercial applications including taxis, limousines, etc.; frequent towing or hauling; extremely dusty or dirty conditions; or under excessive idling conditions. If your vehicle has exceeded the duration of the manufacturer’s warranty, ExxonMobil warrants that the Mobil 1 Extended Performance lubricant you purchased will protect your vehicle’s critical engine parts from oil related failure for 15,000 miles or 1 year, which ever comes first. If not, provided the engine was serviceable at the time the oil was installed, Exxon Mobil will have your vehicle repaired and replace the oil at no cost to you.

Amsoil will warranty and repair your engine IF the oil was at fault, even with the extended drain intervals. You can purchase Donaldson filters that are also warrantied for the 15k and 25k intervals. Valvoline doesn't recommend extended intervals either. So if you only change your oil every 15k as opposed to 3-5k then you will most likely see a savings. Oh, and with the warrantied engines you would have to wait until about 100k miles before extending you intervals if you run anything but Amsoil.

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John M

02-11-2007 06:18:59




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to JoeBob/IN, 02-11-2007 05:56:22  
Lock up a new engine and see what Amsoil will do!



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JoeBob/IN

02-11-2007 10:39:41




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to John M, 02-11-2007 06:18:59  
This is in writing on their website. In a nutshell it says that if a warrantied engine fails you take a sample of the oil and send it to them, if the engine manufacturer claims it was a result of the oil or the extended drain period Amsoil will analyze the oil and engine parts. If they determine it was the oil then they pay to fix, if it was something else and the oil checks out good still then the manufacture SHOULD (we know how they are) and is supposed to repair the engine since the oil was still acceptable. Now, guys like me can't afford a vehicle that is still under warranty and I take a gamble everytime I fire it up so I can do whatever I want as far as drain intervals since I don't have to worry about warranties. But since Amsoil does carry this guarantee on extended intervals with a warrantied engine I figure I can save money and follow their recommendations.

AMSOIL INC. of Superior, Wisconsin hereby warrants that its lubricants are fit for use according to the written recommendations of AMSOIL INC. and in applications specifying one or more of the standards set forth in the product data bulletins and product labels. AMSOIL INC. further warrants its products to be free of defective materials, design, and workmanship.

THIS WARRANTY IS SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING LIMITATIONS: 1. This warranty only applies to AMSOIL lubricants for which a separate, specific warranty is not written. 2. The warranty herein applies only to AMSOIL lubricants, which are packaged by AMSOIL INC. and sold by AMSOIL INC. or an authorized distributor. 3. The liability of AMSOIL INC. shall be limited to: a. Replacement of the defective lubricant. b. The cost, including labor and materials, to repair damaged equipment, or at the option of AMSOIL INC., the cost to replace damaged equipment, resulting directly from the use of AMSOIL INC. lubricants when used in the proper applications. 4. AMSOIL INC. shall not be liable for special, incidental, or consequential damages including, but not limited to, damage or loss of other property or equipment, loss of profits or revenue, cost of capital, business interruption, lodging, towing, or cost of replacement equipment. The liability of AMSOIL INC. arising out of the manufacture, sale, delivery, installation, technical directions or recommendation of any lubricant- whether in contract, tort, warranty or otherwise - shall not exceed the value of the equipment in which the product(s) were used. The remedies to the purchaser herein are exclusive. 5. In the event of a claim against AMSOIL INC., the procedure below must be completely followed. a. Where the original warranty from the equipment manufacturer is still in effect, the customer shall file a warranty claim with the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) in accordance with the OEM warranty procedure. b. Customer shall retain failed parts for inspection by AMSOIL INC. unless given to the OEM. c. Customer shall also, within 30 days of failure, notify AMSOIL INC. and provide the following: (a.) An eight (8) ounce representative oil sample taken from the failed equipment and put into a clean container. (b.) Documentation including make, model, and year of equipment, total accumulated miles and/or hours, and duty cycle or service environment. (c.) Equipment or vehicle maintenance history documentation including miles or hours at the time of AMSOIL lubricant installation, general equipment repairs, and oil analysis results if available. (d.) Proof of purchase for AMSOIL lubricant. (e.) Batch number from oil container or Certificate of Analysis. d. Mail the above sample and information to:

AMSOIL INC., Attn: Technical Services
AMSOIL Bldg.
Superior, WI 54880 e. In cases where the OEM warranty is still in effect and that warranty coverage is denied based on the use of an AMSOIL lubricant, the customer shall immediately notify AMSOIL INC. and provide a written copy of the OEM warranty denial. f. AMSOIL INC. may, at its option, notify its insurance carrier of the claim. g. AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier may conduct an investigation that includes, but is not limited to, an inspection of the failed parts, a review of the operating conditions, and a thorough review of the information requested above. The customer agrees to cooperate with such investigation. h. If AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier pays a claim, an attempt may be made to recover amounts paid from the OEM. If this occurs, the customer may be asked to provide further information pertaining to the failure and to cooperate with AMSOIL INC. or its insurer in the recovery process.

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John M

02-11-2007 11:28:05




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to JoeBob/IN, 02-11-2007 10:39:41  
They have my neighbors entire engine right now, freshly rebuilt and it locked up with Amsoil in it. He was warned by several top mechanics not to use it on a frsh engin, and even Amsoil told him it would be fine.Im not syaing they wont find a problem, but there shouldnt be any, and if its proven that there was a problem, they will have to prove it wasnt the oil that caused it.I beleive he got poor advice from Amsoil, and that since the synthetic wouldnt allow the rings and other moving parts to break in properly it caused his engine to freeze up!We'll see in about a week.

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Jon Hagen

02-11-2007 11:55:35




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to John M, 02-11-2007 11:28:05  
99% chance that the rebuild was messed up. If it fired up initally with the Amsoil in it, nothing is going to grow and seize up. I bet the engine had a problem when assembled. A great many(over 20 brands) of the high performance engines sold in this country come with mobil 1 in the engine from new. They break in just fine with synthetic oil from the first revolution. Viper,Porsche, Corvette, Mercedies Benz AMG and many many more can't be wrong.

Link

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John M

02-11-2007 12:09:02




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Jon Hagen, 02-11-2007 11:55:35  
im not going to begin to argue with anyone over this,quite frankly its none of my business who uses what in their engines.I know that Amsoil was put into this engine when it was replaced in the truck. I know alot of what was done to this engine because I was there when my neighbor was reassembling it, I know he got it running, let it sit and varied the idle for about an hour, took it up the road, gone maybe 10 minutes, got back home and it sat idling for Im guess 45 more minutes. Then suddenly it starting rattling and clicking and clunking and finally stopped. We pulled it out the next morning, put it on the engine stand, pulled the oil pan and found nothing, we could not spin the engine with a breaker bar and a 3 ft cheater. It sat for a day or two and Bill, my neighbor called Amsoil and they requested the oil sample, a week later they paid to have theentire engine sent tothem and thats where it stands now.

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Steven@AZ

02-11-2007 13:34:21




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to John M, 02-11-2007 12:09:02  
Why would you let a fresh engine IDLE for 45 minutes?



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John M

02-11-2007 15:02:49




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Steven@AZ, 02-11-2007 13:34:21  
Wasnt MY engine!



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Steven@AZ

02-11-2007 15:32:24




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to John M, 02-11-2007 15:02:49  
Let me rephrase:

Why would ANYONE let a rebuilt engine IDLE for 45 minutes?!?!? No wonder it locked up...



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Leland

02-10-2007 21:52:21




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Short Round, 02-10-2007 15:29:36  
I use 5-30 penzoil synthetic change it every 6-7000 filter every 3 no problems yet



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Gary from Muleshoe

02-10-2007 20:03:43




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Short Round, 02-10-2007 15:29:36  
I have a 1999 F-150 with 160,000 miles does not use any oil and I use Quaker State 10-30, change every 3,000 miles. So explain to me how synthetic oil is worth the cost? My Dad always used Quaker State and always got at least 250,000+ mile on his vehicles.



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TomTX

02-11-2007 06:04:27




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Gary from Muleshoe, 02-10-2007 20:03:43  
Hey Gary, I wouldn't use Quaker State products to oil the grandkids red wagon.



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ErnieDD

02-11-2007 04:59:33




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Gary from Muleshoe, 02-10-2007 20:03:43  
I have a 98 Chev truck with cold start knock engine. I mean to say it is CSK with regular oil. I run Amsoil and it knocks every so light at zero, for the first 2 tenths mile.

I also change my oil outdoors. Much nicer not to change oil in the winter.

Regular oil does not have the additive for non roller cam follers any more. My 77 vette gets synthetic for its construction.

My brother drove a 96 Camry a little over 400k with amsoil.

When I blew a head gasket on my 98 venture, I was thankful it had synthetic, as it had no internal engine damage. New gaskets and it was back on the road. Still have it, long ways to go, only 149k.

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Jon Hagen

02-10-2007 20:36:47




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Gary from Muleshoe, 02-10-2007 20:03:43  
Your dad only gets a little over 250,000 out of his engines ?? Easy answer then, Mobil ran a BMW engine with Mobil 1 synthetic for 1000,000 miles. When torn down, all parts measured within new engine specs. That together with the less oil changes and filters, better fuel economy and easier cold starting makes it a no brainer.

My personal experience is with a 98 chevy pickup that is still running great at 430,000 miles. It ran the first 100,000 on mineral oil, then was converted to mobil 1. It seems that you can put Mobil 1 synthetic oil into a good running, high mile engine, and what ever condition it was in at the time,will not change seemingly forever. Wear almost stops if you maintain a good air filter system.

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ErnieDD

02-11-2007 05:00:37




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Jon Hagen, 02-10-2007 20:36:47  
Did your truck knock cold? See my other post.



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Jon Hagen

02-11-2007 09:41:18




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to ErnieDD, 02-11-2007 05:00:37  
The high mile chevy is a 454,so did not have the piston slap problem of the small blocks. Where I dId see results similar to yours is with my standby genset. It uses a 200 Ford 6 cyl and gets test run every 30-60 days. With mineral oil in the engine,a dry start after 30-60 days non use would make a piston and rod clatter that made me grit my teeth until the oil pressure came up and quieted everything. With synthetic oil in the engine and the same 30-60 day drain down period, the engine is quiet from the first turn. aparently the synthetic oil does not drain off pistons and bearings like mineral oil.

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rodgernbama

02-10-2007 19:38:08




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Short Round, 02-10-2007 15:29:36  
I use the Mobil 1 extended performance that's good for 15,000 miles. I use Baldwin filters. Money wise it's cheaper than if you change every 3000 miles with dino oil.



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RMinVa.

02-10-2007 16:35:48




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Short Round, 02-10-2007 15:29:36  
Amsoil. Change once per year and change filter at 6 months and fill what's needed for filter replacement. Been doing this since 1989. Oldest is a 90 caravan. Bought used in 92. Had 56,000 when I bought it. One oil change per year since and now has 232,554 last time I looked. It's driven daily now. My wife uses it for her ride to work. Have two pickups 98/99. Both bought new. Both have over 120,000 and get the same treatment. Also use it in both diesel tractors.

That van has had several change done at 16,000+ miles.

Got a good friend in Kentucky that has a Dodge truck with a Gertag transmission that was eating shifter forks. He was replacing them about every 18 months or so. I think it's a 91 model. I called the Amsoil Tech and asked what to use in it. It had 10w-30 engine oil in it. I figured Amsoil would have some type of gear oil for that application. The tech told me to use 10W-30 in it. I shipped him some and it's been going over 4 years now and no more shifter forks have gone bad. He's been happy with it too. Solved a big problem for that transmission. He sells horse hay and is on the road selling about 30,000 bales per year. He was about ready to sell that old truck because of the shifter problem.

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Jon Hagen

02-10-2007 16:05:00




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Short Round, 02-10-2007 15:29:36  
I have used Mobil 1 full synthetic for over 25 years with once per year changes at usually 10-12,000 mile change interval. I determined this was OK by taking oil samples at 3-6-9-12.000 miles and having them analyzed. The results were that even at 12,000 + ,the oil was still good for more use. I decided to change at 1 year intervals which is not much more than 12,000 miles.

Here is an interesting independant oil life study using Mobil 1 and Amsoil pure synthetic.
Both are premiun POA synthetic oils.

Link

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Steven@AZ

02-10-2007 15:58:51




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Short Round, 02-10-2007 15:29:36  
I run at least 5000 miles on my Mobil 1. Keep in mind that I run a lot of shorter trips and all summer we have temps that are 115* plus with climing 6% mountain grades.

If I ran strictly highway miles I'd go at least 7500 miles if not 10,000. Check out bobistheoilguy.com forums for some more info and the link below for one guy's study with synthetic oil.

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B-maniac

02-11-2007 13:10:21




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 Re: Synthetic Oil Change Interval in reply to Steven@AZ, 02-10-2007 15:58:51  
Agree 100%. Mobil 1 100%. Additive pkg in reg oil , shot in 3000 mi. For what synthetics do and as long as they do it , I don't know how anyone can call them costly. They do more and cost less at years end. I wonder how many out there still flush their cooling systems once a year and use the "cheap" stuff? "Evolve"! Chemistry does.



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