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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

4020 tranny and reare end ??

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Raleigh Boulwar

01-08-2007 18:53:12




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I am looking at some of these machines and some of them have a quite a few hours on them. SOme are well over 6000 hours. How many hours would one expect for the transmision and rearend and final drive to still be good?
I know it depends on how it is used and all, lets say they used it plowing some what hard all day...would 9000 hours on a reare end and tranny be to much??

I can get the engine dynoed and get the story on it. But there really is no way of knowing anything about the reare end and transmision..

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MSM

01-09-2007 03:27:01




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to Raleigh Boulware, 01-08-2007 18:53:12  
As was said below,if it shifts properly,doesn't jump out of gear and is quiet,it should be in good shape. Your only concern with the 7-9000 hour tractors would be brake condition.When they start to deteriorate or wear out,the grindings work themselves through the whole hydraulic system and can cause real problems,especially if it is a power shift.Since they are wet brakes there is no easy way to check their condition,they will stop the tractor and not give any indication of problems even if they are steel on steel.The only indicator would be a silver paste in the hydraulic filters. Removing and checking the hyd. filter would be a good thing to do on any tractor you are considering. Small shavings or chips in minute quantities are normal,but if you see alot of chips,discolored fluid,silvery paste,large pieces of brown material it is a good indicator of trans. and brake problems.

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Raleigh Boulware

01-09-2007 06:29:53




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to MSM, 01-09-2007 03:27:01  
I hope they let me do this If I go down there and look at this thing...Its a late model 4020 and they want 8500.00 for the thing. plus $550.00 for shipping. The good thing is that I can run it on the dyno. They tell me down there that it has a rebuilt engine, and a new clutch, and good brakes. They tell me mechanicaly it is one of the most soundest tractors they have ever run accross, for what its worth..

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buickanddeere

01-08-2007 20:18:20




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to Raleigh Boulware, 01-08-2007 18:53:12  
You are worried about something there is no concern about. Who told you the story anyways that 4020's have drive train problems.



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KIP in MX

01-08-2007 22:48:41




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to buickanddeere, 01-08-2007 20:18:20  
Thanks B&D. Usually you tell a guy to forget the 40 year old tractor and buy a new JD 5xxx or 6xxx MFWD. This was the answer he was looking for.



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Raleigh Boulware

01-08-2007 20:48:36




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to buickanddeere, 01-08-2007 20:18:20  
OH No No, there no one told me anything inparticular. I just figured that was alot of hours. Well I knew it was alot of hours for a diesel engine. But I just wondered if it was alot of hours for the gear tran parts like reare end and tranny. If 9000 hours is nothing to be worried about on these transmions and rearends then GREAT cause I know where there a couple of tractors for sale are that I am intrested in

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buickanddeere

01-09-2007 08:10:22




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to Raleigh Boulware, 01-08-2007 20:48:36  
You would still be better off with something new with warrenty or something recent coming off a lease that isn't beat up. If old equipment is so wonderful and such an economic value to own or use. Why isn't there still fleets of 707's, DC8's and Detroit 318's in use? Before opening your wallet at least drop in at the Deere dealer and price a 5105 M4WD,a 6403 and a 6603. There is only the most basic electric on those tractors for those terrified of electricity and electronics. And there are a pile of scared/puzzled/embarassed people here and else where when they face something electrical.

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JDknut

01-09-2007 10:16:37




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to buickanddeere, 01-09-2007 08:10:22  
FAA killed the planes and Emissions killed the 318. Even with plenty of useful life in the airframes or the 318, government regs killed them. But for a hobbyist, collector or even for use, there is plenty of good reliable life left in the good old low tech machines, and some of them were actually better built than the newer ones. just my $0.02.



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Raleigh Boulware

01-09-2007 08:26:13




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to buickanddeere, 01-09-2007 08:10:22  
I absolutly LOVE the 6603, but It is $36,000.00!!! I can't justify spending that kind of money on a play farm...thats the only reason I am looking at the older machines....Might start looking at Massey 1100 because they are so much cheaper...these 4020 are so dang HIGH!!!!



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Bob

01-08-2007 19:28:53




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to Raleigh Boulware, 01-08-2007 18:53:12  
If the tranny shifts well and goes into all the gears, without jumping out of any of the gears, and is quiet, that's about all you can tell.

Who knows... a tractor that has had a good life might have a good transmission even at 9000 hours, or one that has seen hard work may have had the tranny OH'ed several times by then.

If it is quiet, and working properly, you take your chances from there!

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Raleigh Boulware

01-08-2007 19:45:51




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to Bob, 01-08-2007 19:28:53  
Yeah I guess I would be taking my chances here....It seems these tractors are SOOOO expensive! for so many hours!!! It is UNREAL!!!
The only thing I have run acroos is a gas burner for $3900.00 and the tractor looks STELLER!!! But its a gas??? What would it take to convert it over to diesel? Some say it is easy some say alot involved!!! I am some what at a loss here on this let me tell you..



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Gerald J.

01-09-2007 08:59:17




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to Raleigh Boulware, 01-08-2007 19:45:51  
I think its fairly safe to expect the rear end of a 4020 to last two engines or longer, EXCEPT that if its towed even a few hundred feet with the transmission in any gear but TOW, the top shaft will be toast from turning thousands of RPM with out pressure lubrication. That abuse usually shows as a locked up transmission. The gears get welded to the shaft.

There are reports of 4020 running 15,000 to 25,000 hours. I know my gas has a bunch more than the 5300 on the tachometer because the generator pulley sides were worn parallel. The water pump pulley was worn too but not as much.

There are NO laws requiring tachometer hour readings to be accurate or to be maintained. You have to read the teeth of the horse to determine age, there is no assurance the tachometer is right. Cables and tachometers have been known to fail and not be fixed for a decade or two. And hour meters reset.

As for gas vs diesel, if the gas is $3900 and the diesel is $8500, thats $4600 for gas. At running 8 hp-hr / gallon gas or 12.5 hp-hr / gallon diesel and $2.50 fuel, that money will buy decades of gasoline. Working hard the gas will use 11 gallons per hour, the diesel 8 gallons per hour. 3 gallons extra for gasoline per hour plowing balls to the wall. $7.50 per hour, $4600 / 7.50 = 613 hours.

Working 24 acres I used 33 hours per year, that's plowing, disking twice, field cultivating once, planting, rotary hoeing twice, cultivating twice, and miscelanous mowing around the place. I've gone notill, and use the MF-135 for most work and the 4020 is down to under ten hours a year now probably. 30 hours a year makes 600 hours take 20 years.

And a gas tune up costs less than 20 bucks, whilc a diesel injection pump rebuild runs $500. Yah, I might do more gas tune ups per decade than injection pump rebuilds but I KNOW how to do gas tune ups. I've know how to do that for at least 50 years.

That gas 4020 costs less than the INTEREST on Buickanddeere's 6603.

Gerald J.

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Raleigh boulware

01-09-2007 10:50:05




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to Gerald J., 01-09-2007 08:59:17  
You know there is a GROSS differance between that gas tractor nd the Diesel in price. You are ABSOLUTLY correct on that one. I did run accross a diesel that seems good from the photos and sounds REALLY good from the seller, but I can't get a dyno test done on it. It cost only $6800.00 Not quite as cosmeticly sound as the gasser but close...very close. Like I said the pictures and the story behind it looks and sounds REALLY good, but I can't get a dyno test done on it. Other than that to me its a buy!!

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RodInNS

01-09-2007 09:43:52




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to Gerald J., 01-09-2007 08:59:17  
Cripes. 11 gallons per hour? 8 on the diesel. Now I know it's a deere. You could easily run a 400 Cummins on that kind of fuel. If it was me I'd be looking at the old massey with the 354 perkins. Cheaper to buy, and then you could at least afford to run the thing. Man... I can run a turned up Ford 7710 (about 105 hp) balls to the wall, chopping silage all day long on 4 gph. I gotta be honest. I've never understood the economics of buying a Deere. They might be good tractors, and last.... but they cost more up front in most cases, and they've got a habit of consuming about 25% more fuel than most of their competition. Even if you sell it for more in the end, it still doesn't compute. Dunno. Whatever makes a guy happy I guess.

Rod

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Gerald J.

01-09-2007 12:29:51




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to RodInNS, 01-09-2007 09:43:52  
I don't believe your fuel consumption numbers. 4 gallons per hour at 105 hp, means 26 hp hour per gallon. The best tractor at Nebraska tracctor tests before 1975 did 16 hp hour per gallon. It didn't have power steering, live hydraulics, or power breaks, just minimal hydraulics. Nothing for operator comforts. The best today may do a bit over 20.

You aren't getting 105 hp of work out of that engine continuously. Its not at full throttle with that load. I'm talking pulling a big enough plow fast enough that the engine speed is pulled down below the governed speed and the governor has the throttle full open. You aren't doing that, and so you run on fewer gallons per hour. You may only be loading the engine to 50 hp....

Gerald J.

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RodInNS

01-09-2007 15:02:29




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to Gerald J., 01-09-2007 12:29:51  
No,it's not running at that power level continously, or even close. It would be running somewhere in the 70-80 range on an average load, but there are also idle times in that hour. 4 would be it's average consumption... The official test on that engine, on PTO work was 15.5 or something like that. This one is turned, so who knows exactly what it's making. In a real world comparison, I've run a Deere 4440 on the same harvester, chopped mabey 20-25% more feed in that period of time, and burnt 8 gph. The tandem truck with the 400 Cummins, hauling the chop from that harvester was burning less fuel... and the truck was going balls to the wall too. I drove the truck mostly; that's how I know. Deere's have never been known for being easy on fuel around here, even with the guys that own them.

Rod

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Raleigh boulware

01-09-2007 10:51:58




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to RodInNS, 01-09-2007 09:43:52  
I have been locking VERY VERY hard at the massey 1100. Yeah it has a SWEET engine in it too and cheaper to fix as well. But does Massey 1100 come with diff locking?
I love the 354 perkins!!



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Mike M

01-09-2007 05:00:29




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to Raleigh Boulware, 01-08-2007 19:45:51  
You mean you still haven"t bought that gasser yet !!!! I don"t see how you will lose on it ? Buy it, run it ,if you don"t like it sell it for a profit.



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low budget

01-09-2007 02:18:13




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to Raleigh Boulware, 01-08-2007 19:45:51  
The tractor is real nice and only $3900. What are you waiting for? The difference in price will buy a lot of gas. If anyone thinks your not "cool" because its a gas tractor, tell them that. Besides with all this talk about ethanol these tractors may be in demand someday.



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farmer101IL

01-09-2007 02:41:02




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to low budget, 01-09-2007 02:18:13  
My thoughts exactly Low buget. Where is this 3900
dollar 4020?

Farmer



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Raleigh Boulware

01-09-2007 06:24:59




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to farmer101IL, 01-09-2007 02:41:02  
It is in Maynardville TN just north of Knoxville. I am telling you this is a SLICK machine!!!! You will not be sorry!
Do a search on 4020 on www.machinefinder.com it is there..



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Bob

01-08-2007 19:28:42




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to Raleigh Boulware, 01-08-2007 18:53:12  
If the tranny shifts well and goes into all the gears, without jumping out of any of the gears, and is quiet, that's about all you can tell.

Who knows... a tractor that has had a good life might have a good transmission even at 9000 hours, or one that has seen hard work may have had the tranny OH'ed several times by then.

If it is quiet, and working properly, you take your chances from there!

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PJBROWN

01-08-2007 19:02:36




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to Raleigh Boulware, 01-08-2007 18:53:12  
You should ask this on the JD board... some of them guys know almost anyting about Deeres..



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msb

01-08-2007 21:15:02




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to PJBROWN, 01-08-2007 19:02:36  
You already got one of the most knowledgable Deere guys already right here and he has replied already .He is my friend,BOB



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msb

01-08-2007 21:34:27




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 Re: 4020 tranny and reare end ?? in reply to msb, 01-08-2007 21:15:02  
Neglected to add Buick&Deere to my post



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