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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice?

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T.C. in Tx

01-02-2007 07:01:10




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Looking for a little advice here. One of my neighbors along a narrow sandy road decided it was easier to put his new fence in the bladed part of the road than to clear the brush and trees along the old crumbling fence.

Trouble is he did the same thing on the other side about 5 years ago and the county commissioner didn't do anything about it. Now he has put his fence in the bladed part of the road on both sides. At one point there is only 17 feet between the wires. Other points it is 20 to 25 feet.

So, I filed an official complaint with the County Commissioner, County Attorney and so on. They only promised to talk to him and really don't seem to want to deal with it. My concern is the narrow condition of an already narrow road makes it very difficult to meet a car with my tractor and hay equipment. Besides that, any chance that the county may actually improve it with a tar and gravel surface are slim. Why would they improve such a road--right? This is in Lee County Texas.

So, what do you suggest. The neighbor who did this is a local attorney. He claims the road was never deeded to the county and therefore he owns up to the middle. Since he owns property on both sides for about a mile of road, he has made it hard on the rest of the neighbors by narrowing the road. Talking to him is not a good option!!

What would you do??

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Walt Davies

01-03-2007 08:34:52




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
A few years ago I lived in an RV Park down in Talent, Or next to the Calif. border. The owner put up a fence on the back of the property next to the County bike path.
Well the S hit the fan the local bikers complained to the county that the fence was dangerous to them.
The county came out and told him to take it down, he told where they could go he was tired of all the people using our facilities as we were a private park not public. the county called in a surveyor and he found the park owners property line went right down the middle of the bike path.
The county started back peddling real fast. they offered him some of their property on the other end of the park for the few feet they needed to keep their bike path.
the results the park owner got more free land and the fence stayed where it was on his property line right next to the bike path.
Don't you just love Oregon laws.
Walt

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farmerjohninpa

01-02-2007 22:12:45




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
how long has this "road" been there before this fellow did what he did. "past-presidence" does carry weight in court. has his actions caused you lose of time ie: rerouting your farm equiptment, being a farmer your time and fuel is money! "civil case"

has his actions cause a hazard,or risk of catastrophe by prohibiting safe passage for farm vehicles,etc. and the general public using the road. his wallet is the way to hit him and wise him up. take him to court.

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noncompos

01-02-2007 17:53:39




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
I've never worked in Texas, but have in a coast Calif county and in Clackames and Multnomah counties here in OR, all of which have hilly ex-timber areas where many "County" and "private" roads "just grew", i.e: were never dedicated/deeded as roads to any public body but were just created and used as necessary, until the County Commissioners, in their search for votes or wish for development took over maintenance.(Counties very rarely own the land outright under older roads; if they have anything of record it's a dedication or grant for road purposes, which is a road easement).
On the roads the County "maintains",especially unpaved roads, they're generally very reluctant to get involved in these questions (unless it's a road they want, in which case they can be tenacious in the extreme).
On "private" roads, often nothing shows in old deeds; often access is only mentioned when mortgage lenders become involved; they fear foreclosing parcels with no record access and it's hard to resell such loans to the big pension funds, etc., so easements have become a major headache (and source of losses for Title companies).
Land is always acquired subject to existing access rights, whether of record (mentioned in deeds, etc) or acquired thru usage, and to diminish/limit existing rights is legally risky, but it's also true a Court decree is sometimes necessary to settle conflicting claims.
Allen: With all due respect, I doubt that any State has no provision for "ways of necessity", or that all adjacent landowners could shut off access when no easement of record exists; it's too complex to get into here; email if you'd like to discuss.
Gerald: You're right: most County roads are easements; it's perfectly true that an owner owns that land in the road to his deeded line, or the whole road area if he owns on both sides, but it's not unusual to have no recorded dedication or grant to the County. The ownership, of course, is subject to the right of way, whether public or private.
John T: Good advice; my only quibble might be that the longer such diminished area is allowed to exist, the easier it becomes for the fencer to state no one was materially threatened or damaged.
Walt: Is that the creekside taking from the back of the business property case? I doubt the Courts would apply that to existing streets, etc., if for no other reason than to avoid onerous litigation and as "against public policy".
Coloken: I'm unfamiliar with RS2477 rights; I'll have to research a bit. I do recall something about public roads along section lines on the old Federal level, but cannot recall a single case of Federal references in my locations in Cal/OR, or of ever hearing of a claim thereunder, altho it may be applicable in other areas. "Heritage" roads would, like all other un-deeded ways, come under the prescriptive-use laws. Sorry about the long post; easements are a real rats-nest. Please add qualifiers to anything above that sounds concrete; the easiest way to get into trouble with easements is to think you know which way a Court will jump!!

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jdemaris

01-02-2007 16:21:55




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
I've gone through this from both sides of the argument. I live in New York, I don't know Texas law - it varies by state. In most states - Public Highway law requires a town to define all the roads maintained by the type of easement or ownership. If a town does not own a road, and does not have a deeded easement, then it is often - legally - a "highway by prescription." In some states - with such a road - the town's ROW is only as wide as the driven path -i.e. only that portion it maintains - and nothing more. In one case, the town tried to widen a road that I own. They removed trees, pushed dirt without asking my permission. I put it all back - dirt and new trees. It went to court - I won (the case that is). But, I paid my legal costs - and to a degree paid there's via taxes. Of course, the town can have a public meeting and then proceed to take my land my emminent domain.

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JK-NY

01-02-2007 18:54:43




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to jdemaris, 01-02-2007 16:21:55  
A few years back ALL public road right of ways in the State of NY were increased to a minimum of 66 ft wide rgardless of original width of road right of ways, which were often 60 ft for 2 lanes or even less. I'm sure mopst people arent aware of this and I wasnt either till I wanted to put a building up across the road and the people at the town office told me about it in the course of telling me how far from the road I had to be to build. Not sure this has/would have had any bearing on your situation but its good to know.

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jdemaris

01-02-2007 19:15:05




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 I don't think so . . . in reply to JK-NY, 01-02-2007 18:54:43  
I believe you are in error. I'm well read on the subject - I have to be. I've studied the state law as well as current case-law. With the latter, it pretty easy to do a word-search and come up with recent year's worth of court decisions in a particular area. There more then one type of "public road" in New York. So, the road first must be legally defined. I went to court about 18 months ago, and the attorneys and judge agreed with me. Also, I just got done reading the transcript of a recent case in Orange County, New York - not to far from me. Town tried to widen a road and the property owner would not let them. So, it went ot court. The town lost. Judge said it was clear that the road IS a public highway, but it IS a road by Easement by Prescription. And therefore, only the actual traveled portion can be maintained by the town - and no implied "extra" right-of-way on the sides. Here's a bit from the transcript:

Town of Goshen v. Serdarevic, 17 AD3d 576

There is no dispute that the road has become a town road by prescription, pursuant to Highway Law § 189. The Town's interest, however, is limited to the actual extent of its use (see generally Danial v Town of Delhi, 185 AD2d 500, 502-503 [1992]). While that interest is, by itself, sufficient to establish the Town's entitlement to maintain the roadway and to be free from the defendants'active interference (see Town of Addison v Meeks, 233 AD2d 843 [1996]), it does not, by itself, entitle the highway superintendent to perform the work he has proposed on the drainage system that is located on the defendants' property without either the defendants' consent or the authority of [*3]Highway Law § 147. The defendants have not consented and the highway superintendent has failed to establish such authority here

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JK-NY

01-04-2007 18:47:19




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 Re: I don't think so . . . in reply to jdemaris, 01-02-2007 19:15:05  
Upon reading your reply I did a little research on the computer on this subject and it appears you are correct. NYS Highway law allows for a road right of way of 3 rods (49.5 ft). This can vary , obviously be much more when involving a purchased right of way and can be less as you stated. I need to look into this more and see if there is anything (law)on the books locally that affects this , as over the years I have had a couplke other situations involving this issue. I also have a good friend that works for the Dept of Transportation in the road design dept who I will ask about this . In my case which I mentioned before I didnt lose anything , it was just a matter of locating a new building far enough from the road . However I wonder why I was told what appears to be false information. Thank you for your reply.

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jdemaris

01-05-2007 07:06:33




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 Highway Law ignorance ROWs, etc. in reply to JK-NY, 01-04-2007 18:47:19  
I've have been told false information from many official sources including lawyers, police, highway supervisors, mayors, building inspectors, etc. I assume, that most of the time, it's not intentional. The laws are complicated and often conflict. When my local highway supervisor illegal destroyed many of my 150 year-old hard-maples trees - I asked him where he got the idea it was okay to do so. He replied - that's what he was told by the former supervisor, and so on. When we met with our Town attorney - he was clueless on the issue and had to spend a week researching it. And other lawyers? In most cases, they are specialized in a specific field. And some don't seem particulary interested in the law - in general. I have been surprised, many times, with the lack of legal knowledge with certain lawyers. And police? Very often, they know very little except the stuff that specifically relates to their duties. In the situation of highway law - I don't pretend to be an expert. I have found, that in every case so far - I've had more current knowledge than any "offical" I've met with. That's because I had something at stake and did the research. I've got four large parcels or rural property and have had similar problems with all. Sometimes I think it's not worth it. Back to roads, right-of-ways, etc. Keep in mind - that year's back, many rural folk were probably anxious for any road improvements. So, the actions of town highway departments were rarely challenged. Now? Lots of people doing the opposite - trying to protect their property and prevent further development. In my case - where I live - a small dirt single-lane road cuts through the center of my farm and my house is 20' from it. The road used to be closed every winter. I liked it that way. I cannot get mail, newspaper delivery, etc. That's fine. No school bus service either - that is also fine. Past ten years - a mile up past me - all kinds of new development. The road is NOT a dead-end - i.e. none of the new people need to come my way when weather is bad. They get mail, school bus service, etc. Even cable TV. But - seems every year - some city person moves in - and complains about my section of the road. It's "scenic" and they want to be able to travel it whenever they feel like it. So, they go to town meetings and squawk - for road widening, paving, two-lanes, salt, etc. And what about my safety? The road is extremely steep by my house. People already often go off the road in ice and land in the woods. Also hit my barn twice. If the road is "improved" they'll drive even faster - things will not be safer. Back to roads and right-of-ways. Keep in mind, a town can claim such for any portion they maintain. If they can prove they've cut brush on the road-shoulder for 7 years - then they forever have that expanded right-of-way. And snow-plows? Very often, they plow as wide as possible - clip the live trees which die from it a few years later. Then remove the dead trees as a hazard - which is maintenance, and over the years the roads get wider and wider by attrition. If it goes unchallenged, it becomes a legal right-of-way.

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JK-NY

01-05-2007 18:30:41




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 Re: Highway Law ignorance ROWs, etc. in reply to jdemaris, 01-05-2007 07:06:33  
I spoke with my friend at the NYSDOT today , he says 4 rods(66') is standard for MOST state roads and he thinks all new public 2 lane roads in NYS. He agreed that many older roads are 50' and 60' right of ways and can be less.I guess if there was any critical situation one would want to do his own research to get correct info . About 15 years ago a large natural gas pipeline was run from a pumping station 1/2 mile up the road from me down the side of the road past my house (my grandfathers at the time) , my parents house . and 2 pieces of land I own. We were told that it is in the road right of way and the County had made arangements with the pipeline Co to allow it, so there was nothing anyone could do to stop it.( Originally this section was to go cross-lots but one of our neighbors would not deal with the pipeline co). We did not try to challenge this pipeline at the time , but I now feel it would have been worth looking into. The worst thing about it ,it is a high pressure transmission pipeline and we couldnt even hook on and get natural gas service out of the deal!

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buickanddeere

01-02-2007 16:03:02




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
Around here the fenceline has be 33ft or more from the center of the road. Lawyer or not he can't complain about anything that happens to materials on the counties, not his land. Most of these types are bullies and use the common persons lack of experience in law if they can.



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Hard Knocks

01-02-2007 13:12:28




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
As a practical matter there probably isn't anything you can do without spending a bunch of money.He's a lawyer you're going to have to hire one.You know only 99% of all lawyers give them rest a bad name(LOL)



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Walt Davies

01-02-2007 11:23:51




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
You have another problem that could POP UP if the guy is any kind of a Lawyer he will know about the Beaverton, Or Fed. Supreme Court decision saying that the county must compensate the owner of the property or they can"t use it. Some day I expect some bright lawyer to take this up and start suing a lot of Counties, States and Cities that just took the land without Due Compensation.
Almost all county roads and old city side walks and many other places that they have taken will pretty much put a dent in what we know today as public access. I own a lot of public road surface as my land is covered on 3 sides buy county and state roads. Walt Davies

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e

01-02-2007 10:27:43




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
Figure out what time of the day the guy goes down the road. Hook up a string of equipment and time it so you meet him at the narrowest part so he needs to back all the way up to let you through. Make the comment "gosh, if this fence wasn't here it sure would make life easier." Do this 4-5 times and he might get the point.



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John T (Country Lawyer)

01-02-2007 09:17:18




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
TC, It can be true that a landowner still owns property to the middle of a road BUTTTTT TTT that does not mean the local government does not already have either an easement by deed or prior restrictive covenantas that ran with the land or right of way for public transportation or else they have acquired the same by an easement of prescription (similar to adverse possession).

Likewise, even if there never was any governmental easement, thats NOT to say an adjoining landowner may not have himself by prior use or by necessity have also acquired an easement as a matter of law (NOT that lawyers personal opinion, Court would decide).

BUTTTTT TT to avoid costly litigation you might try to first negotiate with the landowner since its typically hard to get any county commissioners or county attorneys etc to do anything UNLESS maybe around election time lol

SOOOOO OOO regardless if the county has an easement (I bet they do either by deed or prescription) its still possible you may have over the years based upon prior use and time and necessity acquired one as a matter of law REGARDLESS WHAT THAT LAWYER SAYS OR THINKS. Rememeber lawyers have no more power nor authority then you do, the law and Courts are there to rule on these type issues.

Free advice 1) Use self help i.e. use to haul hay n farm and other uses consistent with and typical for the neighborhood and keep good records of the use and as time passes it helps your case regarding an easement by necesssity or prescription. 2) Squeaking wheel gets the grease, keep complaining to the county attorney n prosecutor n commissioners n sheriff n anyone who will listen includign the news media

best wishes

John T Country Lawyer in Indiana

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Midwest redneck

01-02-2007 09:17:04




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
If it were me I would get a large tractor or excavator and bust out the fence all the way down the road. after 4 or 6 times the guy may stop putting up the fence. (of course you could pay someone to do this). I would be sure of myself doing this if it was my road. my road has 100's of cars per day though. so I am sure that other neighbors would do it too.



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Pooh Bear

01-02-2007 09:12:28




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
Around here if the county has maintained the road for that long then it is a legal county road.

I grew up on the end of a dead end road. Our family had 7 acres there that started about where the road ended. The neighbors propery across the street ended where the road ended. We didn't know who owned the rest of that land. We lived in my Grandparents house, and decided to build our own house on the property. I was about 6 years old at the time. Our road wasn't paved back then. My parents just went out to the end of the road and cleared a swath about 100 yards down further to extend the road. My Dad knew it wasn't on our property but the land wasn't being used and nobody knew who owned it. And this was the early 1970s in rural Tennessee. So it wasn't a problem for anyone. Well, the very next year the county decided to pave our road. And they did. all the way to the end. Even the extra 100 yards we had added. And about every 5 years they repaved it. They did this for the next 30 years. In that time we had put a nice little fence down our side of the road, and a nice row of trees had grown up. And the property had changed hands countless times. It finally ended up in the possession of a lawyer who wanted to develop it as part of another upscale (very upscale) development that had been created on the other side of his property. Except that road wasn't on his deed. He had lost a parcel of land approximately 100 yards long and 40 feet wide. He had it surveyed. The surveyers had to go by the old fence lines (ours) and said the road belonged there. He had it surveyed again, and again, and again, each time by different surveyers. They all kept telling him the road belonged there. He went to the county. The county said they not only had a right of way thru there but that they had to right to extend it another 500 yards if they wanted. So the lawyer went to my Dad and threatened action against him if he didn't remove the road. My Dad said go see the county, they paved it. They both went to see the county, same answer as before. The lawyer threatened lawsuits. My Dad said fine, I'll clear a road on my side of the property line and give the county a right of way. But I will have to cut down that row of trees to do it. The lawyer said no to that idea. He wanted the row of trees to hide our property and neighborhood. So the lawyer decided to allow us to use half the road as a driveway if we would have the other side of the road removed by a dozer and plant trees and grass. My Dad said he wasn't about to use a dozer to tear up a county road, but if the lawyer wanted to he could have a dozer do it and then we would plant trees and grass. And things were left at that point. The lawyers plans for development fell thru and he came and apologized to my Dad for all the trouble he had caused. And he finally added a right of way for the road to his deed. This was all about 15 years ago and the road is still there. We moved from there about 10 years ago.

If the county is maintaining the road then you can force them to maintain a clear right of way or sue them for damages when another car forces you thru the fence.

Minimum width should be 40 feet. 20 feet for two lanes, 10 feet wide each, then 5 feet on each side for drainage ditches, then another 5 feet on each side for utility easements.

Call the county attorney and ask him who is liable for the damage caused by a fence blocking part of the road and the county is refusing to do anything about it. Have the problem brought up at the next county commission meeting. Liabilities seem to get action quick.

Pooh Bear

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730virgil

01-02-2007 09:01:31




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
in carroll county il a farmer planted corn on township right of way . township road comissoner mowed corn off when he mowed road side



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farmer101IL

01-02-2007 08:51:02




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
Run your disc or digger , plow etc., right through the dam thing. He's just a lawyer eventually he will just cut a deal with you.!!!

Farmer



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amertrac

01-02-2007 08:48:03




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
have you considered contacting the local fire department concerning restricting the road and preventing fire trucks from reaching the houses on the road?



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Fluggie in IA

01-02-2007 08:30:26




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
I would be tempted to use stumpalump's idea or to add a real nice fence across the guy's home driveway or around his vehicle when he is working. Keep us informed on this one, I, for one am curious how this plays out.



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CLW

01-02-2007 08:21:05




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
T.C., If all else fails call the TV or Newspaper in your area. They love to do this kind of story. Let them put some heat on the commissioners.



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Gerald J.

01-02-2007 08:20:57




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
Near here that happened and it was the county engineer who complained about anyone doing anything to compromise safety of travelers by compromising the width of the road ditches. Here the roads tend to be on easements while the deeds show the land owners owning to the middle of the road. That lawyer may not have read all of the documents about his land. There is probably an easement 50 to 66 feet wide for that road, permanent, without payment.

Gerald J.

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T.C. in Tx

01-02-2007 07:56:18




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
To clarify, this is a county maintained road. They blade it several times each year. To my personal knowledge it has been that way for over 30 years, and undoubtedly many years before that. I would estimate the old fences on either side have probably been in their places for 60 or 70 years. How this guy can be so inconsiderate--or just plain old lazy or ornery--is beyond my comprehension. He placed the new fence anywhere from a foot to up to 10 feet outside (in the road bed) from the old fences.

Texas does have laws of adverse possession. I would assume the county could rightly claim the road but how would you get the County Attorney off his duff? I filed an official complaint and still they don't take action.

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wayne from wi

01-02-2007 09:34:30




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:56:18  

It's a good chance your county attorney and this guy are buddies. That might explain the lack of action. Just remind the county attorney and the others who won't help that you and many others pay him to enforce the law, that he appears to not be doing what he is hired to do. Elections and the state bar assoc. can have an effect. Just ask that crooked DA in Durham,NC



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Stumpalump

01-02-2007 08:04:51




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:56:18  
Run it over with your truck if it's in the road.
How manny times will he fix it befor he moves it?
Get a good run at and take down as much as you can then ask him how he wants to take care of your bumper?



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wayne from wi

01-02-2007 07:37:33




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  

In Texas, does the county, or jurisdiction in charge, have adverse possession rights like property boundary laws for private landowners in most states? That may prevent him from infringing on the road even if it was never deeded. Also is it a through road and give access to other landowners who are affected. Maybe get others to join you in the complaint. Just because the guy is an attorney doesn't give him the right to be a lazy farmer and not clear his own brush for a fence. Also it is a safety issue. Can you contact the sate DOT or highway dept? Go higher than the county and maybe you can access a little more clout.

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Allan In NE

01-02-2007 07:49:15




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to wayne from wi, 01-02-2007 07:37:33  
I know of tracts of land here that are not accessed by any county roads.

So, a pilgrim comes in and buys the land thinking he will just use a "farmer road" that the former tenant made. Wrong.

The law states that he cannot get to it without permission from an adjoining farmer to cross his/their land(s). If everyone surrounding that land say "No", he is just flat out screwed and can't even get to his own land. :>)

Allan

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Paul Janke

01-02-2007 15:35:19




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 01-02-2007 07:49:15  
He can still access it by air.



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James2

01-02-2007 10:38:04




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 01-02-2007 07:49:15  
At least in these two states (Illinois and Ohio) you cannot sell/deed property that does not have access or divide a property such that it does not have access.



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Coloken

01-02-2007 07:34:34




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
Thats a tough one. If there aint no road, then there aint no road. In Colorado there is some kind of a ruling that you can't block what has been a historical passage or trail. Geting a county to open a roadway is to cause them to spend more money----- -



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mj

01-02-2007 11:29:45




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to Coloken, 01-02-2007 07:34:34  
Coloken- I believe you're referring to RS 2477 concerning historical access. Here's a link to one site dealing with that. A Google search for 'RS 2477' will show about 571,000 items. :-)



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Allan In NE

01-02-2007 07:12:08




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to T.C. in Tx, 01-02-2007 07:01:10  
Yep,

We have some of that going on around here.

If the "road" is not on the county plat, it is not considered a road at all and he can fence it completely off if he wants.

However, if the county maintains it and it is indeed a county road, he has to get back away from it the distance set forth by your local laws.

Here a fence cannot be placed closer than something like 56 feet from the center of a "platted" road.

Allan

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TxAllisMan

01-02-2007 08:33:02




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 Re: Neighbor Put Fence in Road--Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 01-02-2007 07:12:08  
Allen I also live in Texas amd I will give you advice to contact the state rep. Leave a message and your call will bw returned or just write a letter and it will be answered.

I know that our state rep will follow up on peoples questions and complaints because I myself have made complaints to our state rep and my issue was fixed.

Damon
N.E. Texas



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