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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Detergent or Non-detergent oil

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Rasser

12-04-2006 18:37:56




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I have a 1950 Farmall M I have been using straight weight #10 oil in, but have found it increasingly hard to find. I use it used mostly in the winter for snow removal and infrequently the rest of the year mostly for lifting and transporting heavy stuff. It is never worked hard. My question is will using 5W30 oil be detrimental to the engine since it is used to non-detgent oil. Any thoughts?




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dhermesc

12-05-2006 08:20:50




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
If you are that concerned use 5W40 Rotella.

You could drop the oil pan to get an idea what your dealing with, you might be surprised by how little (or how much) gunk is in the pan. The tractor is 56 years old, you might look at as an oppurtunity to inspect the rods and crank.



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Steven@AZ

12-05-2006 05:58:56




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
Just because you have been using straight 10 weight oil doesn't mean that it was non-detergent. We run the straight 10 weight in our 1256 through the winter, and trust me- it has detergents in it.

Does it say on the bottle/can "non-detergent"??

Either way, if you are concerned, pull the oil pan and valve cover - if there is sludge, scrape it out, if not, make the switch and don't look back.

I run Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40 in my '42 H year round - change the oil once a year, before winter storage.

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MSM

12-05-2006 05:40:50




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
The 5w-30 and 10w-30 oils sold today are designed for the new automotive engines with roller lifters in the valve train. They do not have the shear additives needed to protect the old style flat tappet valve train.Any good quality diesel rated oil still has this additive because they still use flat tappet valve trains. This was covered 2-3 weeks ago on this forum with the evidence to back it up.

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Allan In NE

12-05-2006 05:31:55




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
No Sir,

That old tractor is an inert object. Iron.

You can run it on melted whale blubber if ya like. It 'taint gonna complain one little bit and it will probably outlast us all.

Oil choices are a "human" trait. :>)

Allan



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djm75

12-05-2006 03:31:46




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
If your plowing snow it must get cold where your at don"t use 15w40 thats too thick thats for diesel"s. 10w30 would be just fine for you and if you live way up north where it really gets cold then you should use 5w30. It must be thin enough to lubricate when its cold or your bearings will be dry at every start up. the new stuff will start to clean your engine up it may release alot of crud.



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Hard Knocks

12-05-2006 03:11:17




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
I worked in an auto salvage yard when I was a teen in the 60's and we could always tell when an engine had been running non detergent oil there would be about an inch of crud covering everything under the valve cover.Gulf oil was the worst.



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Gerald J.

12-04-2006 22:42:45




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
Besides detergent, the modern oil also contains a bunch of slippery additives (perhaps more if SF or SJ than SM) and anticorrosion additives that help keep the silver and copper bearing inserts from being eaten away by the moisture in the oil that makes the bearing to shaft space into a battery.

Running straight weights I believe had a lot to do with 30s to 50s vintage car engine needing overhauls at 35K intervals. Primarily because its poorer lubrication, the build up of sludge, and the corrosion of the copper bearing metal.

Car engines running 100K without a tuneup depends a lot on the better quality oil these days with good filters.

Gerald J.

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JDknut

12-05-2006 03:48:13




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Gerald J., 12-04-2006 22:42:45  
The same is true for Diesels in mack trucks. Million mile Desels are commonplace where years ago you majored an engine at 250,000 miles. The better oils help all engines last longer. But there is a place for non detergent oil, in a oil-flooded rotary vane compressor. I cannot find the 10 weight non detergent oil called for in my compressor in anything like the quantities needed so I am using 32 hydraulic oil which has a similar viscosity. 10 weight detergent is common, but to use it now after all the years of non-detergent would dislodge all the crud that had built up in the compressor oil system, just like in an engine, and make the vanes stick and raise all kinds of cain.

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buickanddeere

12-04-2006 20:54:46




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
Put 5W30 in it and change the filter a few times. Using that crappy non detergent oil has left dirt crud in the engine. Find the person who told you non deteregent oil is good idea and punch them in the face a few times. Shell Rotella is the finest mineral oil. The only better is synthetics by Shell, Mobile 1, Amsoil, Royal Purple or Lubrication Engineer's.



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John M

12-05-2006 03:20:46




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to buickanddeere, 12-04-2006 20:54:46  
Shell does not make a pure synthetic.



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2t2@ia

12-04-2006 19:29:34




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
Hi:
Ever since the 1940's I can remember discussions and disagreements as to what oil to use. Until 1975, I cleared snow with a 1939 B John Deere with a mechanical loader. When I look back on it, that was about as difficult equipment to use as could be. It seemed O.K. at the time, and was better than a scoop shovel. In real cold weather, I would pour some boiling water on the intake manifold and it always started. At any rate, in cold weather I first used 10W with a pint or so of kerosene added. When It became available, I used 5W and then 5W-30. I never had any trouble with lubrication. The B is still in the family. Hope this helps.

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Coloken

12-04-2006 19:22:16




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
I go with no tools, 10-40 and never look back. If cold weather , 10-30. WAIT--you said you been using straigh # 10? then use 10-30.



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djw

12-04-2006 19:02:33




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
I use 10-30 in all of my old tractors year round,for light use like your use and never have any trouble. DW



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karl f

12-04-2006 18:58:55




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
the biggest problem is all the crud that the modern oil will dislodge. non detergents leave a lot more sludge and other deposits.
what is your maintenance history/schedule? what's the oil look like when you change it? what's the repair history (last overhaul)? have you popped open the valve cover and/or oil pan to look at what lies beneath?
there's different schools of thought at changing over to modern lube. one is remove the sheet metal and clean it. another is dilution over time to achieve 100% detergent oil in the crankcase. some say dont change til you overhaul it (so that everything can be chemically cleaned). it's complicated, but ultimately your decision.

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Don L C

12-04-2006 18:57:51




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
I would change to Shell - Rotella T, 15w- 40w.....Now this oil will meat your temp. change needs and it is high detg. ..... be sure to change the filter couple times a year,cause it will be dirty..... ..



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NO tools

12-04-2006 18:49:49




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to Rasser, 12-04-2006 18:37:56  
Rasser
Aahh Just put the good ole 15/40 in it.
It'll not hurt it at all.
people just don't use no-detergent oils any more.
i would'nt go as low as 5w30 due to age of tractor??
Maybe 10w30////10w40.
Bill



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dfl

12-04-2006 19:21:29




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 Re: Detergent or Non-detergent oil in reply to NO tools, 12-04-2006 18:49:49  
10w is too thin for a farmall M under hard working hot conditions. That oil will get so thin that it just won't distribute heat and stick to the rod bearings



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