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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler

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CB in central N

11-21-2006 09:11:56




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Greetings.

This is quite a bit OT, but I am sure there are many folks here who heat with wood, so...

I have a wood-fired Tarm USA add-on boiler (my second season with it) that was installed to work together with my oil-fired Weil-McLain boiler (hot water heat). When the fire goes down too low, the oil boiler fires up and vice versa.

My problem has been that the wood boiler belches a ton of smoke every time I open the door to add wood. I"ve played around with the three draft controls this thing has but with little luck. I have a fairly new chimney (built 2002, last cleaned this summer) which this boiler shares with a woodstove upstairs. I never have any draft problems with the woodstove.

My wood isn"t top of the line (I harvest all my own) but there is still quite a bit of hardwood. Also some of the wood was cut before I installed the boiler and was cut too long, so I have to stack it vertically.

If anyone out there has any experience with the Tarm units or any add-on wood units, I"d appreciate whatever info. I can get. I"ve tried something called a draft inducer (basically a fan that goes in the smokestack) at my parents" house with their setup with no luck. It gets kind of old to have to open all the windows to let the smoke out. Thanks in advance.

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in sticks

11-22-2006 14:14:07




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 Re: OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler in reply to CB in central NY, 11-21-2006 09:11:56  
as far as a storage tank i have seen where a cement septic tank,not used,new, buried outside of course then plumbed to boiler and house heating system.tank was insulated big time all around.just an idea



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CB in central NY

11-22-2006 10:51:59




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 Re: OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler in reply to CB in central NY, 11-21-2006 09:11:56  
Thanks to all who answered; some good info. here.

IN STICKS: The boiler did the same thing when new. Yes, there is a lot of creosote built up on the inner walls of the boiler, like I said, I don"t burn the best wood. There is a plate you can take off on top to clean the "heat exchanger". I am also going to clean the pipe connecting the unit to the chimney.

Forist NWMa: My wood has been seasoned about 18 months but right now it"s mostly pine. I am getting to some hardwoods further down in the stack once they season. I don"t have the heat storage tank, no room for it in my 150+ year-old cellar with all the other stuff that"s already there. What draft inducer do you mean? I don"t have anything on top of the boiler.

Matt Kane: It"s a block chimney built in 2002 and it"s about 25" tall (actually, two chimneys side by side). I have my oil boiler, the Tarm and a woodstove, so I have to share the chimney. No, I do not have any grilles in the cellar, the windows are boarded up and have some conduit and pipes running through them.

By the way, this is an older model Tarm, not one of the new "wood gasification" units. Tarm USA tried to sell me one for a lot more money, of course.

Thanks again.

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Dave Sherburne NY

11-22-2006 10:28:01




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 Re: OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler in reply to CB in central NY, 11-21-2006 09:11:56  
Matts right ,you shouldn't have 2 woodburners on the same chimney it will cause your problem. But
who wants to build another chimney. I would try
to get more air into the Tarm before I opened the door wide to fill it. Just open it a crack or open
the ash door a little to get it hotter before you open it wide enough to load. After you load it let it burn hot for a few minutes it will make less
creosote.

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Mike Van

11-22-2006 03:21:21




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 Re: OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler in reply to CB in central NY, 11-21-2006 09:11:56  
CB, i have a Harmon wood boiler, probably like yours. Mine has an automatic draft door on the bottom front - The trick is, if this draft is closed, don"t open the stove door. The inrush of air to a smoldering fire causes the smoke bomb you get. If the door is closed & i want to load the stove, i hold the draft door open for a few minutes, then open the stove door. Works for me.



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in sticks

11-21-2006 19:18:24




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 Re: OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler in reply to CB in central NY, 11-21-2006 09:11:56  
how did your setup work when new?if draft was ok when new then check the innards of boiler ie the smoke path for creasote buildup.you don't want that to catch fire. it will be hot when it takes off.must be some cleanouts on that rig somewhere?



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Forist NWMa

11-21-2006 16:34:24




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 Re: OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler in reply to CB in central NY, 11-21-2006 09:11:56  
I have been to the tarm school in NH. and have installed a few of these biolers. What i learned form the school was your wood should be paper dry cut split and stacked and covered for 2 yrs.
do you have the heat storage tank? when loading the wood shut off the draft inducer on the top of the boiler- wait a few seconds crack the door to get the draft going and slowly open the door to load your wood. u can email me AT f_mclain@yahoo.com ill try to help ya out

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Dan-IA

11-21-2006 15:07:31




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 Re: OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler in reply to CB in central NY, 11-21-2006 09:11:56  
I don't know anything about a Tarm. But I do burn wood for heat. So what I've learned is... After I throw the wood in, I wait a while (20 minutes or so) before opening the door again. Seems that after the wood burns a while, it doesn't produce near the smoke.

A bigger problem I have is that, when there are red hot coals in the bottom, if I throw in the wood too flat and the air can't get away, it waits a few minutes, goes 'woof' and blows a bunch of smoke and ash back through the ash drawer. So I try to be careful about that.

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Matt Kane

11-21-2006 14:56:16




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 Re: OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler in reply to CB in central NY, 11-21-2006 09:11:56  
First of all, what kind of chimney and how tall. Second, you should not share 2 wood appliances with the same chimney for this will cause draft issues and cool the chimney for creasote accumulation. Make sure you have no more than 2 90s on the flue, and if not, use adj 45"s. Try opening the window when its smoking and see if this helps. Also do you have any return air grills located the room with the boiler? All of this will greatly affect draft.

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Bill in NorthCentral Pa

11-21-2006 12:24:48




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 Re: OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler in reply to CB in central NY, 11-21-2006 09:11:56  
I have a similar set-up, only I set my circulator to run all the time, and unhook the gas boiler. The wood fired unit is a HS Tarm as well. I have the same situation, which is draft related. Two things that seem to help. 1. Adjust the "damper" plate on the left hand side chamber - when the smoke leaves quickly, so does the heat 2. Keep the chimney very clean - the Tarm seems to soot up the chimney far faster than a woodstove, probably due to the reburning of wod gases built into the design.

On very cold days, the back smoke is much less, leading me to believe that it is draft related.

Let me know if I can be of help - I'm no expert, but my eyes have been filled with smoke a time or two.

Good luck,

Bill

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Tim B from MA

11-21-2006 13:42:42




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 Re: OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler in reply to Bill in NorthCentral Pa, 11-21-2006 12:24:48  
These boilers create more soot and smokier smoke on warmer days because:

the water gets up to temerature, the air in-take damper closes, and the wood sits and smolders, results in less complete burning of the particulates, less heat, chimney gets cooler causes less draft, more smoke into the basement when you open up the door to add wood.



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Tim B from MA

11-21-2006 11:56:31




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 Re: OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler in reply to CB in central NY, 11-21-2006 09:11:56  
If you have one of the fancy Tarms with the upper secondary combustion chamber (I believe it is intended to add air (oxygen) to the smoke to completely burn the smoke particles) I can't say I have any experience, but I could see that slowing down the flow of smoke out of the boiler and result in what you are experiencing.

If so, is there a secondary air inlet to the upper chamber? If you shut that off when the door is open, it may improve flow of smoke to the chimney.

I have a similar set-up, but with a very simple boiler (basically two large steel pipes, one inside the other forming the water jacket - with an insulation jacket)not a TARM.

The boiler was built with a solid (i.e., not adjastable) baffle at the smoke discharge hole - it was meant to interfere with the draft so the heat does not go up the chimney too fast - I suppose it was supposed to make it more efficient.

This baffle caused lots of smoke to come out of the door when loading wood, despite the hinged smoke door hanging down inside the loading door. I dealt with this by just opening the door quick, shoving in a piece of wood, closing it quick, repeat .... It minimized the amount of smoke comming into the basement, but also minimized my pleasure in burning wood.

The smoke discharge baffle fell off after a few years (held on by two thin tacked-in-place bolts) and it has been much better since - and I don't think it impacts the efficiency of the boiler at all (not too efficent to begin with).

If you have such a baffle, that would be your problem. Would greatly improve if you took it out.

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CB in central NY

11-21-2006 11:02:37




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 Re: OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler in reply to CB in central NY, 11-21-2006 09:11:56  
My Tarm actually came over from Denmark (on a real slow boat, too). Yes, it has a hinged door on the front with a temp. regulator. My chimney has a cleanout door on the inside of the house just under the Tarm"s smokepipe. And no, the house is definitely not too tight; it"s a 150+ year-old farmhouse where I spent hours trying to fill all cracks so that the wind couldn"t get in.



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jdemaris

11-21-2006 10:28:03




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 Re: OT - Tarm USA add-on wood-fired boiler in reply to CB in central NY, 11-21-2006 09:11:56  
I don't have any first-hand experience with the US stuff that now carries the Tarm name. I almost bought one a few years ago - but was unable to get the model I wanted. Tarm was a Danish company; Tarm is a town in Demark. At one time, the village had one huge boiler and all the villagers tapped into it. Since the company, in the US has been sold so many times, I stopped paying attention. But, anyway - regardless - you must have draft, and you probably need a smoke-door - hinged and hanging down from the top in front. Depending on your quality of the chimey and draft, the size of the smoke door might have to be played with. I also don't know how small and/or tight the house is. It would have to be awful tight though, to prevent good draft.

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