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OT: Ethanol Police?

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Rauville

10-28-2006 09:21:04

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In our area, "Blending Pumps" where you can choose the percentage of ethanol (10-20-30- up to 85%) have become popular at several gas stations.
Lots of folks have become customers and supporters of ethanol through the use of these pumps.

Of course, a good thing can't last when the government gets involved. The station owners this week received notice from Washington that they must cease operation of these pumps at once, or face a $25,000 fine per pump location. Reason given was that the EPA has not approved any ethanol blend fuel other than 10 or 85%.

Leave it to the federal bureaucrats to mandate the use of something, and then turn around and discourage it's use!

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MarkB_MI

10-29-2006 03:13:51

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to Rauville, 10-28-2006 09:21:04

I don't know the particulars of this case. Perhaps the retailer was trying to collect the ethanol blending tax credit.

However, when you buy E85, it is seldom actually 85 percent ethanol. The refineries seasonally adjust the ethanol content to ensure that cars will actually start and run on the stuff. Allowing consumers to pick the blend seems like a bad idea to me.

In response to another post: Yes, it is true that UL has pulled their certification from any pump that is used to pump E85. The reason is simple: they have no test data to prove that fuel pumps tested with straight gasoline and E10 are safe when used with E85. Which is not to say that they won't recertify those same pumps after testing with E85.

In other E85 news, Ford has been receiving a lot of bad press lately regarding their Flex Fuel vehicles. Consumers have been complaining that their cars run like crap on E85, and that when they take them to the dealer they are told "don't use E85".

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Hermit

10-28-2006 18:18:40

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to Rauville, 10-28-2006 09:21:04

There are probably people buying a higher ethanol-blend fuel without a flex-fuel engine. This may be due to a lower price because of the tax breaks for ethanol producers. This causes 2 problems for the government. Some places have a lower fuel tax on ethanol-blended fuels which means less tax money if more non-flex-fuel owners are buying higher blends. Also if people with non-flex-fuel vehicles running high ethanol blends start having engine problems over the long term, this could be bad news for the ethanol's industry public relations campaign.

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Bus Driver

10-28-2006 12:57:22

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to Rauville, 10-28-2006 09:21:04

Sounds like some bureaucrat has too much time on their hands. If you have a flex fuel vehicle, you have the choice to add as much E-85 and/or gasoline at a time as you wish. That could yield all sorts of mixtures. For our local government offices here, they have hired some of the least competent people imaginable. You look in their eyes and see that no one is at home!

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Farmritch

10-28-2006 12:09:40

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to Rauville, 10-28-2006 09:21:04

I keep hearing problems about when we used the old methanol back in the late 70's & 80's I really don't believe Corn Ethonol is as destructive as most say I've been running 85% in my my Flex fuel Mini vans and know of others that mix 85% 50/50 with standard vehicles ( which nos has 10% mixed in ) with no problems .
Most people have been burning 10% ethanol for years with out knowing it and only believe they have problems when it's pointed out to them

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fixerupper

10-28-2006 10:22:10

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to Rauville, 10-28-2006 09:21:04

I heard UL has removed it's approval of the pumps dispensing E85 because of a possible seal failure caused by the ethanol. Has anyone else heard of this? I am pro-ethanol, in fact all of the corn off my farm will go to an ethanol plant, so this news bothers me.Jim

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MN Scott

10-28-2006 11:11:03

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to fixerupper, 10-28-2006 10:22:10

Ethanol eats any thing not made of stainless steel including any seal, gasket or fuel line made or desighned before 1995. Just try living in MN with our 10% ethanol mandate and run it in a carberator [sp?] equipped truck, car, or small engine made before 1995!

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MSD

10-28-2006 19:56:30

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to MN Scott, 10-28-2006 11:11:03

You know, I bet all that alcohol has been eating through my plastic bottle of Canadian Windsor whiskey and evaporating. It seems like it is always going empty. Bottle says it's 40% by volume.

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doogdoog

10-28-2006 20:27:08

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to MSD, 10-28-2006 19:56:30

Aloha, I try to keep a spare gallon of gas but the next time when I need some, it is down about 1/4 from evaporation (and nobody is using it LOL).

Mahalo,
doogdoog

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IaGary

10-28-2006 16:43:58

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to MN Scott, 10-28-2006 11:11:03

Scott I've been burning nothing but 10% Ethanol since 1973 in all my gas engines.

These include a 73 torino and ten to twenty other cars and pickups, and even F600's since.

Tractors D17,MTA,880 and 77Oliver,460,560,300.
and all my neighbors burn it also and no one has any problems caused by the ethanol.

And no modifcations were made to the carbs.

Gary

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MN Scott

10-28-2006 19:30:54

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to IaGary, 10-28-2006 16:43:58

My gas engines run fine on ethanol its just the materials used in holley and rochester carb kits break down and either swell or turn to jelley. My C65 grain truck is in the shop right now with gas dripping from the accelrater pump. A new $15 diaphram and it will be good to go until next year if I'am lucky. Same with my chainsaws. I have a homelite 360 that my dad bought new in 1979, never a fuel problem until ethanol was mandated, now I've installed 3 carb kits and replaced the jellied fuel lines and intake boot each time to in the last 8 years. I have a 4 year old stihl 026 chainsaw and it quit running last fall. Found out the fuel line had turned to jelly not allowing any fuel thru it. That line was a special stihl made line, near $20 for a new one. I've never had any trouble with my gas farmall tractors as they have no rubber in the fuel systems. That's why ethanol strikes a sore spot for me, I am having a bunch of fuel system troubles in older machines that I never had before the mandate, so ethanol must be a factor in them.

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nballen

10-30-2006 08:32:24

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to MN Scott, 10-28-2006 19:30:54

Scott,

If you are having to replace the seals / diaphrams / lines every year, you should check into the actual material used in those components.

For instance, gasoline does not get along well with Polypropylene, but is compatible with Aluminum.

The same kind of thing is true with ethanol. I suspect that Viton or Buna-N (rubber-type compounds) might be compatible with ethanol.

I'm sure that dej(JED) would have good references and be able to speak knowledgably on this...

dej(JED)? Any Input?

Nathaniel

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edchinsaw

10-28-2006 20:24:49

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to MN Scott, 10-28-2006 19:30:54

heck my holley carbs have problems all the time and we dont have 10% available my cuz's did too -- he said a Holley was a lady- if you cant get intimate with it it would get you back!

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jdrriver

10-28-2006 13:44:37

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to MN Scott, 10-28-2006 11:11:03

I used to live in Iowa and all the gas was 10% drove that ole 1975 maverick 210000 miles and NEVER had the carb off.I beleive thta peaple have problems with ethanol that want to have prob with ethanol

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fixerupper

10-28-2006 11:29:24

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to MN Scott, 10-28-2006 11:11:03

I had a lot of trouble with the accelerator pump diaphraghm on a 76 plymouth with a 318 when ehanol was run in it, but never had any trouble with a 73 Satellite 318 or a 79 Dodge 360. I was told only the 76 model year cars had a problem. Go figure! Had the same trouble with a ranger with a carb but I don't know the model year. Went to Ford mechanic to get a diaphraghm and he opened a drawer full of replacement diaphraghms. He said that since ethanol is being used now he has to keep quite a few of them on hand. I have run 10% in all of my old tractors without any problem, in fact, the higher octane has quieted down the preignition knock in some of them and the fuel system stays clean and water-free. Jim

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Jay (ND)

10-28-2006 10:45:28

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to fixerupper, 10-28-2006 10:22:10

Yep, that's correct. It surprises me that the pump manufacturers weren't more on top of this.

Don't worry. It will be back.

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B-maniac

10-28-2006 09:56:29

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Re: OT: Ethanol Police? in reply to Rauville, 10-28-2006 09:21:04

The whole problem here is it's all happening so quickly that the oil companies havn't quite figured out how to get a strangle-hold on ethanol production and sales yet. Since they pay the feds off to retain their control of oil&gas,they figure it's time the feds start "helping" them out on this ethanol thing too.Trust me , you WILL see more of this type politics being used before this thing gets very far out off the oil co.'s powers!!! Farmers and small bussiness WILL be regulated OUT of this by the feds/oil co.'s once it starts really taking off and making money. Hopefully that is when the common people of this country will gang together and take a stand against a government that is just as corrupt as any.Our country sends troops to countrys to stop the very thing that goes on here every day. There's a word for that,I think!

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