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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Tractor Muffler Designs????

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davpal

10-24-2006 22:12:22

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After going through this forum many times and through all the brands it is unbelievable to me that tractor engineers for so many companies could have been so shortsighted on muffler design on tractors. Other than Henry Ford who ran the muffler under the tractor where it should have been it seems like none of the other companies caught on to his good idea. I see more articles on this forum for freeing stuck engines than just about anything on here. It all goes back to a exhaust pipe and muffler that goes straight out of the hood and is completely vulnerable to water ingestion from rain. Seems simple to have a rain cap or a cover right? Obviously not because there has had to have been hundreds of thousands of tractors that have set up from sitting in the weather. I know they are not supposed to be out in the weather but a huge share of them end up out there in the rain. A 9n ford can be parked outside for years and never have that problem. I actually don't see any benefit to having them come out of the hood. They are loud, hot, fumes in your face, and they get rain in them and rust the pistons in. Maybe they thought they were keeping them out of the dry grass, but I have brushogged for years with a 9n in the dead of summer and never had a problem. They are probably the lowest to the ground tractor made too. Seems like somebody would have came up with a nice under the operator exhaust, like all cars have with a quiet muffler that can't ingest water. Think how many vintage machines would have engines that were still in excellant condition because they didn't have to have somebody fill them with tranny oil and pb blaster and then beat on the pistons with a sledghammer!

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Glen in TX

10-25-2006 13:09:24

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

Bad or cracked leaking exhaust manifolds or intake manifold can let moisture down in a engine cylinder of one sitting no matter how the exhaust pipe is done. Also having pipes down low can let mice jump and crawl right in too and pack it full of crud while sitting.

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David in MD

10-25-2006 13:08:25

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

I bought a JD 2030 diesel with a horizontal muffler under left floor board. I hated this tractor until I had a gooseneck made and mounted the same muffler vertical just to the left of the hood. I made supports down to the side rail but didn"t have to cut the hood. Before the tractor gassed you no matter what you were doing, now it"s a pleaseure to drive. You can keep your low slung horizontal muffler.

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PJBROWN

10-25-2006 09:35:30

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

Down exhaust and hay fields don't mix..... let alone driving one in a hay barn with hay on the floor. We have a MF 184-4 diesel with down ex... The damn thing make the equipment black from the diesel...

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Allan In NE

10-25-2006 08:03:50

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

Hey Dave,

Ya need to take a stroll thru a field of waist deep windrows of any type sometime.

You learn real quick why farm tractors have the exhaust exiting vertical and use at least a 38" rear wheel. :>)

Allan

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Bill in Colo

10-25-2006 07:48:17

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

Baling hay in 100 degree heat is no place to have underslung muffler on a utility tractor, it's hell on your feet.

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djw

10-25-2006 07:37:43

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

I agree with davpal, lowslung is the way to go. I have a Ford 3000 that has a some what modified horizontal exhaust. I have tucked it up nice and close to the running board and exits straight back [no turndown] I don't worry about low branches , and in the last 5 years of using it ,I never set anything on fire. As far as fumes behind the tractor, if I'm off the tractor seat,the engines off. To reach his own. Dave

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BarryfromIA

10-25-2006 07:01:42

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

Most of the flambeau red and some of the two tone Case tractors had a hole in the bottom of the elbow where it headed up. Our first 300 Case had the under exaust. It made the platform over the muffler hot, and useing a pto grinder in the drive way of the corn crib unpleasant and probably unhealty. Made you want a tailwind.

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tractorsam

10-25-2006 05:11:23

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

My thoughts on this is there"s nothing wrong with the upright design. They only seize up because these old tractors were built to be used and not be left sitting around for years on end. You can also have good fun with an underslung if you"re plowing snow with a rear blade and keep plugging up the muffler. I don"t think either version is perfect but I prefer the uprights. Each to their own, tractorsam

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Nolan

10-25-2006 03:21:28

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

Both designs have their place.

With a low exhaust, doing anything with the pto has you choking on fumes. The exhaust is easily ripped off. But for routine riding, they sure are nice.

Front ones give you more ground clearance usually. Make using pto equipment comfortable. But boy do they get ripped off easily in the orchard. And if it isn't tall enough to get the gasses up over your face, you gag as you drive.

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TGIN

10-25-2006 03:06:32

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

My 1974 IH 574 D has a underslung muffler . Ya have to shut it down to hook equipment up , it will put ya in a fog . Not much fire hazzard with the deisel but them gasers get hot and throw sparks . I remember gettin a smoke lite off a 300u out mowin hay in my younger yrs. , they get hot .

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hayray

10-25-2006 03:52:53

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to TGIN, 10-25-2006 03:06:32

I have a 1974 IH 464 and the muffler underneath got ripped off and now I have upright and it is unbearable to drive, I have to do something else with it.

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evielboweviel

10-25-2006 02:53:12

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

the exhaust underneath has set many a field on fire and killed farmers doing it. search thru and you will see it. Lost an old farmer here late 80's with that damn underslung exhaust you like so well. He was crippled up and couldn't run away faster than the fire so he burned to death. With an upright exhaust he would have lived thru it and not burned alive.
Have to hook up 3pt implements with JD that has an underslung exhaust at work. then smell like diesel all day after that not to mention having to breathe all that smoke
Ron

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doogdoog

10-25-2006 02:34:36

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

Aloha, All the tractor engines that was frozen because of rain, was because the owner didn't take care of it anymore. Probably the reason why is because he didn't want it anymore or he had a new one. The only person who would complain, is the person who bought it, but he also bought it cheap so he is happy to have something affordable to restore.

Mahalo,
doogdoog

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RAB

10-25-2006 02:05:40

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

AS previous post pointed out, fire risk if underneath the tractor. Relatively many fires in hay crops from the relatively few under-tractor exhausts - mainly from petrol/paraffin burners (sparks, hot carbon). So actually a bad idea for most tractors.
Any tractor manufacturer could reduce the noise simply by fitting a MUCH larger silencer. Why not - because of cost and visibility and etc....
They fitted cabs instead insulating the driver from the noise, heat and other irritants along with safety in mind these days.
So I would disagree with you when you say "shortsighted". They did the best job possible under the constraints placed on them.
You obviously didn"t notice some tractors had a small drain hole at the lowest point on the system (eg Fordson Diesel Major), but those extra bends cost fuel efficiency and manufacturers wanted exhausts through the hood instead of out the side (for those extra horses, efficiency, aethsetics and for fitting loaders etc). Compromise, compromise all the time.
By the way, the best rain caps were those supplied by the manufacturers (eg Oliver) and fitted each time by hand. The only thing there, back in the 40s, was that the exhaust sat inside the manifold and water could run down the side if the exhaust stack and into the manifold (where, of course, there was a small drain hole in the bottom of the exhaust manifold).
Oh, er, why were ALL Fordsons not fitted with underslung exhausts if it was such a good idea? I really am surprised that with all your trawling through the archives that you needed to ask this question at all. I might suggest that you take up the challenge and design a system, sell the license to use it, to the tractor manufacturers, and make yourself rich.
Regards, RAB

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CLW

10-24-2006 22:49:15

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

It was tried by Deere I know, and I am sure others also. Deere offered a large chunk of change to anyone who could come up with a good one. The 9N had rear mounted equipment where as most of the others had front mounted equipment. Could be the pipe would get in the way of equipment and/or be to hot to work around. I know some 50s and 60s and maybe 70s had under the tractor mufflers but not many. Since they would have been an option but few were sold I guess people didn't like them for some reason. The orchard tractors had them but again they pulled equipment and did not mount it on the front.

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Don-Wi

10-24-2006 22:41:27

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to davpal, 10-24-2006 22:12:22

A lot has to do with cost as well, because I know I sure wouldn't want to have to replace a 3-4" exhaust pipe that runs all the way under the tractor on a big deisel, and I sure wouldn't want to breath all the fumes while behind the tractor while hooking onto a wagon or any thing else.

They run it straight up to get rid of the heat quickly, to avoid trapping it in places it shouldn't be. Many tractors with the exhaust running underneath have started fires when raking hay, and some gets on the hot muffler. Almost lit up our 165 Massey that way once, and turned it up shortly there after.

In short, yes they should all have rain caps on and to me it's a given, yet I'm always truely amazed at how many I see on the country side with out one. Or for that matter, one that's been rusted in a 1/2 up position or bent/broke. If we happen to catch the rain cap and bend it, I'm sure to either straighten or replace it as soon as possible.

If it was more feasable to run it under, it would have been done that way. Truth is, it just isn't worth it in MOST sitiations. Put on an extension if it isn't above your head, and make dam sure that the thing has a properly functioning rain cap. Won't have any problems then.

Donovan from Wisconsin

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Harley

10-25-2006 08:41:12

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to Don-Wi, 10-24-2006 22:41:27

And besides all that, they look cool with the pipes up in the air blowing smoke and gittin-er-done.

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Ken Macfarlane

10-25-2006 13:20:15

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Re: Tractor Muffler Designs???? in reply to Harley, 10-25-2006 08:41:12

Have a front exhaust on our kubota that stinks you out if you leave the cab windows open on that side.

The neighbour nearly lost his MF135 this summer while raking as the exhaust lit a pile of hay on fire that had caught under the tractor.

I think the best designs are the new underhood mufflers with pipe close to cab pillar.

Oh BTW diesels spit nice big hot sparks too, run one wide open at night with a good load on it. Once the muffler and pipe start glowing red it tends to spit nice sparks out.

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