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OT rewiring a house

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msb

10-22-2006 18:55:08




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Need to upgrade the wiring in a house built in 1958 .Needless to say it doesn't have grounded outlets.How would you go about it short of ripping out the walls?It has a 4/12 pitch roof and has very little attic room and was wired through the attic. House is built on a crawl space.Could I run the new ground under the house? Maybe I could drill through the bottom of the outlet box or maybe just above the baseboard with a slit in the drywall up to the outlet? TIA,bob

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Tom R NE

10-23-2006 13:57:02




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to msb, 10-22-2006 18:55:08  
To mark a location through a ceiling or floor, Use a straight piece of wire about 1 foot long cut from a coat hanger (won’t twist up carpet fibers if you need to drill thought carpet) and insert this into a drill motor. Locate the studs and mark the place you want your new box and drill the locator wire through the ceiling or floor as it applies. At the floor if you pull out the quarter round just a little bit you can drill this locator wire through the floor behind the quarter round and once the locator wire is removed the hole will be hidden behind the quarter round.

If there are presently boxes installed remove them and use an electricians drill bit that comes with flexible shanks up to 4 foot long, these can usually be fed through the hole in the wall and flexed at such an angle that you can drill through the plate.

For fishing wire through walls, drop a piece of small flat link chain (commonly called furnace chain in this area) down from the top hole and fish up through the bottom hole with a flexible shaft magnet, once the chain is fished through you can fasten the wire to it and pull the wire through.

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Duane WI

10-23-2006 10:09:33




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to msb, 10-22-2006 18:55:08  
When we moved into our old farm house a few years ago we knew we had to do something about the wiring. The existing wiring was in okay shape but just not up to the job. About 2/3 of the ceiling lights and wall outlets in the house worked off of one 15 amp circuit. All of the ceiling fixtures had been replaced with multiple bulb type. The circuit breaker was always triping. I replaced all of the light bulbs in the house with the compact floresent type. The current draw is about 1/6 the amount so not only is the 15 amp circuit okay but I am saving money. We then added new outlets and wiring in needed places like the refrigerator, mircrowave, entertainment center, freezer, etc. This was a relectively cheap fix.

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JayWalt

10-23-2006 05:39:55




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to msb, 10-22-2006 18:55:08  
My sisters house was the same way. Instead of spending weeks trying to fish wire (The house is very poor designed for fishing new wire), we opted to run all the circuits through a GFCI outlet bank at the panel. The house only had 6 "outlet" circuits, so it wasnt bad. This was alot cheaper then all new romex and the time involved. We then changed all the outlets to grounded outlets and put the supplied "no equipment ground" on each outlet. My dad is a state certified electrician and said this is fine.
Grounding is done so that in the event that the hot wire touches the metal case of an appliance, the ground provides a return path to the breaker panel instead of you providing a return path to earth. The ground and neutral are connected at the panel and act as the same conductor. However, using a neutral as a ground is prohibited by NEC. This is because there must be a separate, unloaded return path (ground) in the event of a short to the case. This wuld ause a short circuit situation and blow the breaker. A GFCI does the same function to prevent electric shock. Devices that require an equipment ground (not really alot out there that does) may not function properly. My sister has never had a problem, in fact, she was saved by the gfci when a device of heres failed.

This is probably not the way for most people to handle this situation, but it was perfect for my sister's case. You can also buy GFCI circuit breakers, but the $10 GFCI outlets were alot cheaper then the $70 CGFI breakers.

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cj3b_jeep

10-23-2006 05:26:27




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to msb, 10-22-2006 18:55:08  
I'm not really sure how to go about it, but I would use the 12-2 and 20 amp circuits. If you ever run anything heavy, like and air conditioner, toaster, hairdryer, etc. You'll be happy you did. Also buy the wire in bulk, not those 50 foot rolls, it's much cheaper in bulk.



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mjbrown

10-23-2006 04:24:02




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to msb, 10-22-2006 18:55:08  
The old wire in my house (much older than 1958) has ground wire in it but it wasn't used. I only had to replace outlets and hook up the unused ground wires. Are you sure your wire doesn't have a ground?



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banjo

10-22-2006 21:08:20




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to msb, 10-22-2006 18:55:08  
I second 12-2 with ground. I just remodled this ole house and put new wireing in. I had 2 fire blocks in the walls with sheetrock over lap sideing both sides of the wall and ceiling.

Instead of going under the house i cut small holes where i could drill threw the fire block and then patched the holes. can't even see the 21 holes i cut in the wall. part of the house is paneling so i just removed the peices i needed too and covered the holes i cut back up.

I guess grandpa wanted a solid house, he just skimped on the wireing back in the 60's.

attic was a bit cramped here too but i wore a dust mask and knee pads. But i didn't have to worry about falling threw the ceiling with all that lumber holding me up.

I would go to at least a 200 amp main if not already.even if you don't need it right now. Also put a couple of snorkle tubes in to pull extra circuits in to the main at a later date should you ever decide to.that way you dont have to tear out around the panel to fish wires in.

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huntingreen

10-22-2006 19:49:04




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to msb, 10-22-2006 18:55:08  
Wire as much as you can from underneth. Take the existing boxes out and replace them with non metallic old work boxes. If you angle the drill just right you may be able to drill the holes from underneath. Use 14-2 with ground for all but the required 20 amp circuits. (check local codes) You may heve to cut a few small holes in the sheetrock but those can be fixed and will make the job go a lot better. It will take time but is worth the effort.

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in-too-deep

10-22-2006 19:54:41




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to huntingreen, 10-22-2006 19:49:04  
I would recommend using 12-2 throughtout(lights, outlets, everything.) It may not be necessary, but the cost difference is small, and you won't have to worry about which size wire to use where. It's not as flexible, but I'd feel much safer knowing that all the wire is plenty big for the load it's carrying.



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dr.sportster

10-22-2006 19:10:31




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to msb, 10-22-2006 18:55:08  
If there is attic above or crawl space/basement below it can be rewired.If there is no ground and it is bx cable the sheathing is the ground and a tail can be brought to the metal box and keep the same wire[with added new ground tail] for the new three prong receptacle.If not then a gfi can be put in a box with no ground.It may be better to keep the old wiring and add under window AC lines or whatever only where needed.Keep wall damage to a minimun by using a snake and long flexible drill bits.You will need a Milwaukee right angle drill and naileater bit also.

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msb

10-22-2006 19:27:31




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to dr.sportster, 10-22-2006 19:10:31  
Wiring is 2-12 Romex cable.If the Romex is stapled at least a foot from the outlet as is called for in the code, how do you pull it lose when there is very little room for an old fat man to manuver in the attic?lol



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Dachshund

10-23-2006 03:33:42




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to msb, 10-22-2006 19:27:31  
A lot of times in older houses, the wire was not stapled at all. It depends on when it was done and if the house was built before electricity was ran.



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dr.sportster

10-22-2006 19:31:09




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to msb, 10-22-2006 19:27:31  
It is very difficult to yank a staple.Often the old wiring wont pull in the new unless you open a spot here and there for pulling staples.Doesnt the 12/2 Rx have a ground conductor?



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Dachshund

10-22-2006 19:08:37




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to msb, 10-22-2006 18:55:08  
When we re-wired our house, we pulled the outlet boxes out and replaced them with new. While they were out, we either attached a new wire to the old and pulled through, used a "fish" tape, or went under the house and drilled up through the floor to the outlets. If you have a hard time finding where the walls are when you are under the house, take a small drill bit and drill down next to the wall. Stick a small wire through the hole and that will give you an idea where to drill ( just drill a couple inches to the "wall side" of the hole).

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Areo

10-23-2006 09:06:13




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 Re: OT rewiring a house in reply to Dachshund, 10-22-2006 19:08:37  
In rooms with a rug, just drive a nail through the floor to find where you are at. Pull the nail out and no one will ever know.

Areo



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