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And It Gets Better

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Allan In NE

09-03-2006 08:29:34




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Oh Yeah, I'm still at it. :>(

History: Prior owner of my 966 had bought a new front end loader and had it installed here locally. Shortly thereafter, the darned engine develops a sleeve o-ring leak allowing antifreeze into the crankcase and the tractor was parked. The thing sat for 6 years before I bought it.

Fast forward to my oil pump replacement debacle.

Went out there this morning to swap the hydraulic pumps and come to find out, according to the part numbers, it has already been replaced with the high output 17 gallon pump. Local boys must have swapped it out when they sold him the loader.

Considering that the tractor only has 4,000 original hours on it to start with and also that I find a bad o-ring/gasket at the pump yesterday, I think I'm totally wasting my time replacing this pump.

Maybe just put in a new o-ring, gasket and button 'er up?

Allan

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KEH

09-03-2006 14:33:58




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 08:29:34  
Allan,

I guess you checked to see if the baler cylinders are OK. Worn o rings in the cylinders cause the same symptoms.

KEH



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Allan In NE

09-03-2006 17:03:35




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to KEH, 09-03-2006 14:33:58  
Baler is fine. Been using another tractor because this guy won't run it. :>)

All is well now tho, she snaps her open and closed like a trouper.

Allan



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Ted in NE

09-03-2006 10:42:16




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 08:29:34  
If the hyds have been niosy since you got the tractor, make sure the pump suction tube seal behind the baffle in the hyd filter cavity is good & in place. Put the pump in and install the suction tube seal from the filter side. You have a 50/50 chance of not damageing the seal if you just put the pump in. Will pull air & be noisy. Have been useing a teflon oring & no more blown orings.



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billonthefarm

09-03-2006 10:31:43




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 08:29:34  
allan if you are worried about that o-ring failing again there is a service bulletin on it. Have your dealer look up service bulletin s-3726 from august 8 1978. Had that o-ring blow out on a 1566 a couple of times and the local IH mechanic found this bulletin and after a little machine work on the grove and a new o-ring part number I havent had to replace it again and that was many years ago. Just something to check on if ya get the chance. bill

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Allan In NE

09-03-2006 10:44:05




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to billonthefarm, 09-03-2006 10:31:43  
Bill,

The o-ring was for sure the problem. Wrong darned one.

See my fix down under the Vet's post and see what ya think.

Allan



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billyiron

09-03-2006 09:22:50




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 08:29:34  
probably one of the mechanics who stuck that pump in snagged the gasket,Id stick the old pump back in,,billy



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37 chief

09-03-2006 08:50:19




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 08:29:34  
Allan, sounds like you are doing the right thing. You should be able to send the new pump back for a refund.You might see if the O ring groove on the old pump is same as the new pump. Those little O rings are asked to do a lot, If the old pump O ring groove is a little too deep it may not seal correctly. Have a good day, Stan



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the tractor vet

09-03-2006 08:49:57




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 08:29:34  
Well Allen all ya will be out is a Gskt. and O/Ring if ya got to pull her back down and some time . Now it would be nice to have it Flow rated and see if it is doing what it is suppose to . Now from what i am told here is that if ya are using the 17 GPM pump then you should have the aftermakket dual filter adapeter that one company offered and i am tryen to think if that was BMD or aillied been a few years ago since there travelen salesman was tryen to get me to switch from Hy Cap to them as both tryed to get my businessbut they did not offer any warranty as to payen for my labor in the event that one of there products failed where Hy Cap did but never had to use it as never had a failure . Now i could see the advantages to the Stacked filters and allowen more oil to flow thru a larger area as from what this guy was tryen to sell me that the filter was only good for 15 GPM but i was having a hard time swallonen his sales pitch since that you could order them with the 17 GPM pump from the factory .. Atleast put a gauge on her and see if it will come up to pressure at and ideal .

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Allan In NE

09-03-2006 09:05:03




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to the tractor vet, 09-03-2006 08:49:57  
Vet,

The thing was flow rated at 1800 lbs at wide open throttle when I bought the tractor. A new pressure valve was put in at that time also.

Now, this hydraulic pump has been "singing" ever since I got it.

Further, the hydrulics have been getting steadily worse the past year and now will not even work unless I have the tractor wound clear up. Won't hardly even open the gate on the big round baler.

It will still lift that big plow if wide open, but won't budge it at any speed lower.

Oil is pretty darned black too. Maybe I should just go ahead and replce the pump and service 'er all out while I'm at it?

Allan

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the tractor vet

09-03-2006 09:43:47




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 09:05:03  
What pressure releif did they stick in there ?? Now one thing it could have been that they stuck the wrong O/Ring in as there is a difference in O/Rings in there makeup just because they are the same size does not mean that they will work in someplaces . Also make sure that when ya install the new one that it stays in place i like sticking them with a littel grease to hold them and use guide dowels so that you go STRIGHT ON a littel copper coat on the backside of the gskt just to hold it in place also helps , make sure that the O/RiNG grove has no rough spots that can start a tare in the o/ring and the face of the pump plate is smoothe . Wait ah min . here i just got looken in my books and on a 966 it is only suppose to have a 12 gpm pump on the farmalls and the 17 was only used for industral applacations . Stock relief pressure should be 1900- 2100lbs and if someone stuck in a 2250-2350- relief then this could make the o/ring blow so check that.

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Allan In NE

09-03-2006 10:39:49




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to the tractor vet, 09-03-2006 09:43:47  
Vet,

Relief valve first. This is a late '76 black stripe model so is supposed to run at (I think) 2,000 or 2200 lbs.

Now, the o-ring was for sure the problem; it was too skinny by far and too small to fit inside the shoulder of the recess. New o-ring doesn't come with the pump nor does it come with the cover gasket package; thought I was stuck fer a minute.

So, I do the next best thing and arrive at this cure from my transmission days. Is it gonna work? I really don't see why not.

Yes, I'm using 6" guide bolts to go back on and I decided to just go ahead and put on the new pump, as it "feels" stouter when ya turn it.

Thanks Bud,

Allan

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the tractor vet

09-03-2006 12:02:26




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 10:39:49  
Been busy out killen BEE's now for some reason i keep thinking that the last time that i had a hyd. pump off the O/ring that i got was a square cut yellow one , ya know how ya get with age , now on the doublen up here i don't know as they do have to have some room to flaten out like one said on and other post becareful not to damage the seal on the back side . Now if RED would ever come thru and just buy me that lear jet that is on E/Bay i would just throw my road box in the back and come out.

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BobHnwOh

09-03-2006 08:45:25




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 08:29:34  
Allan,that"s the way it goes,some days you get the bear,other days the bear gets you,seems like most of the time I GET GOT,LOL,Bob.



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Allan In NE

09-03-2006 08:55:42




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to BobHnwOh, 09-03-2006 08:45:25  
I'm really fightin' with myself on this one; I just don't wanna do this job again.

But, when I bought this tractor, the locals told me that there is no way that the loader could have more than 50 hours on it 'cause right after they sold it to him, the tractor went down and he just parked the old thing.

I'm throughly convinced that the pump was new with that loader because the loader was plumbed to work off the tractor hydraulics and it had one of those fancy electric over hydraulic controls installed also.

On the other side of the coin, there was a problem going on with that hydraulic system the day I bought it. Look at that hitch..... .

Would you go to the trouble of replacing the pump while you were in there, if you were I?

Allan

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sd pete

09-03-2006 10:49:18




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 08:55:42  
Its only money stick the new one on.



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Allan In NE

09-03-2006 10:51:55




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to sd pete , 09-03-2006 10:49:18  
Heck Yeah,

Money has already been spent. I got over that little hurdle yesterday. :>)

Yep, I bolted on the new one. It just plain "feels" better; probably 'cause there is no wear on the gears.

Thanks,

Allan



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Jonfarmer

09-03-2006 09:30:21




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 08:55:42  
If it was a farmer doing the job, they would slap the old pump right back in it to save money. However, you are a hobbyiest, and like your equipment to be 100% and you said it has been quite a job to get that pump out, and if the new pump wasn't too expensive, then you should go ahead and change it, because then you would know for sure the condition of the pump and wouldn't have to look at it... possibly ever again. I think your supposed to change the hydrolic oil about once a year.

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Jim K

09-03-2006 09:28:03




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 08:55:42  
Sounds to me like you just answered your own question.
If'n it were me I'd put the new pump in and rebuild the old one, so that i had a spare.
Unless you really need the money. It will be something that you won't have to mess with for while. It'l give you time to repair the next anoying problem.



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RodInNS

09-03-2006 09:24:27




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 08:55:42  
Hi Allan,

I dunno about that IH stuff, but with my old Ford's, when I think a pump is going bad, I pull the thing apart and just look at the housings. When the bushings start to wear a bit, they cut the housings up, and the pump is pretty much toast then. Wouldn't take you but half an hour I bet, and then you'll know. I know that with the Ford's, it doesn't take much wear to make quite an impact on performance.

Rod

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BobHnwOh

09-03-2006 09:15:29




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 Re: And It Gets Better in reply to Allan In NE, 09-03-2006 08:55:42  
Allan,I'd go with the old pump,Bob.



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