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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

modern engine oil

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mmidlam

09-01-2006 07:47:18




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I have read that the last 10w-30,10w40 engine oil type (SH-S?) don't have the zinc antiware aditives like the older oils. Seems it causes problems for some of the newest antipollution stuff. The dual rated diesel oils (15w-40)still have a good additives package. Recommended to use the 15-w40 rated oils in older engines. Should we all be using 15w-40 in the older tractors?




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Hal/WA

09-01-2006 15:04:09




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 Re: modern engine oil in reply to mmidlam, 09-01-2006 07:47:18  
I read an article in one of the hot rod magazines a few months ago on this subject. They said the newest oils for gas engines don't have the anti-wear additives partly because they don't need them. Most late model gas engines use roller lifters or cam followers, rather than the older style lifters or followers that more or less slide on the lobe surface of the cam (hopefully cushioned by a nice layer of protective oil!).

The article said there had been a lot of problems with camshaft and lifter wear on some of the aftermarket high performance camshafts, which used the conventional flat tappet lifters. They recommended using the diesel rated oil, which continues to include the anti-wear additives, to prevent premature cam wear.

I had been using whatever was on sale in 20W50 in my old Ford 641D, which leaks some oil and probably has over 10K hours on it. I always had better hot oil pressure with the 20W50 and since it was being dumped on the ground, I was trying to get by as cheaply as possible. Before I read the article, I had never had it explained why it was important to use diesel rated oil.

My 641D will get Rotella at each oil change from now on, although I will probably use up the gas engine rated 20W50 I already have when I need to add oil, at least sometimes.

I expect to need to rebuild or overhaul the engine in the 641D in the next few years. Hopefully the existing cam and lifters will not be worn too much to reuse, as I have heard that the diesel camshafts are hard to come by.

I think I will use diesel rated oil in my 84 Ford pickup with 460. I am sure it uses conventional lifters and only has about 35K on a rebuild. I would sure hate to have the camshaft go bad on it. It will probably stay with me the rest of my life, gas hog or not. I need a hauler sometimes and the old Ford does that well.

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tn_hayseed_cowboy

09-01-2006 20:04:16




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 Re: modern engine oil in reply to Hal/WA, 09-01-2006 15:04:09  
I use Rotella in all my tractors , but also in my Dodge 1 ton , and the Toyota I run around in has 249,000 miles on it. I have always used Rotella in it. Tractors don"t use any oil between changes. I have had good luck with it.



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James2

09-01-2006 09:10:28




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 Re: modern engine oil in reply to mmidlam, 09-01-2006 07:47:18  
Basically you are correct. The zinc-phos anti-wear compound will "poison" the newer (three way?) catalytic converters, so they mix in a lot less than they previously used. Substitute 15W40? Bingo! you are again correct. Use 15W40 or if cold weather starting is a concern, use synthetic 0W40. I have done this for years and also use 0W40 in a newer plastic chevy which has been chipped, which required removing the secondary catalytic converters.

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shawnspeed3

09-01-2006 08:58:48




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 Re: modern engine oil in reply to mmidlam, 09-01-2006 07:47:18  
Yes , I would recomend using the truck/diesel rated oils . the additive packages are far supierior to the general automotive oils. the new oils are one of the causes of the sludge problems being seen in some engines now, especially engines that see extended high tempature use...just my 2c worth...



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big hunter

09-01-2006 08:03:17




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 Re: modern engine oil in reply to mmidlam, 09-01-2006 07:47:18  
just my opinion, I would think that most any oil made today is better then oil made years ago. Engines today have turbos, turn faster rpm's, most any car or truck engine will make it to 200,000 miles or more, construction equipment will (if taken care of) make it to 8,000, 12,000 hours or more before a overhaul is needed. my parents cars and trucks only made it to about 100,000 to 120,000 before they were worn out...anyhow I think todays oils are very good

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dhermesc

09-01-2006 11:31:59




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 Re: modern engine oil in reply to big hunter, 09-01-2006 08:03:17  
Motor oils have to be better because new engines are made to run much hotter for cleaner emmissions then engines 10 years ago and older.


It is my understanding that as an oil reaches a "new level" (current shelf oil is API "SM",) it must also has to provide all the benefits that previous levels provided "SL" "SH" "SG" etc....


Link

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

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James2

09-01-2006 18:32:54




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 Re: modern engine oil in reply to dhermesc, 09-01-2006 11:31:59  
I don't totally buy into this theory. The new "S" grade oils may have just enough anti-wear additive to prevent wear on an old slipper cam, but I would rather have a little extra rather than marginally enough. A new question is: what about the new "C" grade oils for next year? A friend who works for a large corporation which sells additive packages to the oil companies, tells me at least the oil TBN will be lower, which may not be a good thing. Perhaps since diesel fuel will have a lower sulfur content this may not be such a big deal. However, this friend recommended that I buy a few barrels of the current stuff to tide me over for a few years to see how things work out.

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