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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!!

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want_GOOD_Tractor

07-24-2006 21:39:07




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OK I have a chance to get either a John Deere 4020 or a IH 856. Which is easier to work on and repair if I have trouble? Which one is cheaper to fix as well?
The IH the guy is asking 7500
The JD guy is asking 8000.00 plus delivery for his
Which would you choose? they are both located in the general area..

Which one gives the LEAST amount of trouble?




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Gerald J.

07-25-2006 21:17:19




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-24-2006 21:39:07  
When I was looking for a 3010/20 or 4010/20 I found dozens to choose from for every AC 180, 190, Oliver 1850, IH 856, IH 766 for sale in Central Iowa. There just were a huge lot of 4020 made and that means lots of parts yet, new or used.

Then Deere and Company hasn't been bought up like IH to let the new management decide to forget prior lines and the needed parts.

Yup that green paint sure is expensive and my gas 4020 is a hawg on fuel, but it does a lot of work and I'm comfortable riding it. More than my MF-135 but somedays the fuel savings of the 135 justifies its use.

Gerald J.

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steveiijd4000

07-25-2006 18:46:50




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-24-2006 21:39:07  
I would get my hands on the 4020 if I had the money.

yeah right I own a 71 4000 I not letting it GO.



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kyhayman

07-25-2006 18:18:35




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-24-2006 21:39:07  
Here, that price would be a steal on a good 4020. I know several guys who make good money buying them in Iowa and Indiana to bring them back. Takes $10,000 to touch one with decent paint and rubber. Seems the IH is a tad high. Im real partial to them though.



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want_good_tractor

07-25-2006 20:36:42




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to kyhayman, 07-25-2006 18:18:35  
So $7500 a Tad high for the IH, but 8,000 possibly 8100.00 after delivery for the 4020 is OK....why?
Is the 4020 that much beter Tractor or is it that John Deere is just more expensive...



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kyhayman

07-26-2006 07:20:27




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_good_tractor, 07-25-2006 20:36:42  
Mechanically speaking, I think they are worth about the same money if the T/A is working in the IH. Probably the JD is worth a little more IMHO since JD is fully supporting parts and (even though I am a CNH kind of guy) I worry about how much longer CNH will continue to fully support the older IH products. They have already stopped supporting a lot of items for the Case David Browns (which is why I traded my last one off two years ago for Ford blue).

With all of that said. The real difference is what people are willing to pay. The 4020 is perceived by enough buyers to bid it to a premium price. Is it worth that much more, who knows. Why does a 4440 JD bring $10,000 more today than it did when it was new? Obviously, at least 2 people think so to make an auction.

I'm not a man who bleeds green, far from it, only green thing on the farm right now is a square baler. There is a real perception that they are worth more and that builds into resale and residual value. For the money you are talking, I've gotten late 70's to 90's vintage 7 series Fords.

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B-maniac

07-25-2006 13:22:06




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-24-2006 21:39:07  
Just my opinion: 4020 is a better ballanced tractor,especially if you are putting a loader on it.Note where the front of the engine is in relationship to the front of the tractor and then compare to the IH.The JD engine is way farther back adding more weight to the drive tires where it belongs.With a loader on this would be an advantage also. John Deere did this intentionally on the new gen. tractors and even promoted it in their adds back then as getting better traction, with weight being equal,than other tractors.It shows at tractor pulls in the lighter classes where these tractors must pull without weight to make the class.The IH wont even get the front up when the JD will. Look at the quallity and streamlining of the castings of the engine and manifolds on the JD compared to the IH. It's the little things that make the difference. The JD will bring back more of your investment when and if you ever sell it. The green is just the frosting,I believe it's just a better all around tractor for the money.

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want_good_tractor

07-25-2006 17:48:33




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to B-maniac, 07-25-2006 13:22:06  
might be....The green will be $500 to $1100 in the eaxct same condition...



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JDB

07-25-2006 10:16:59




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-24-2006 21:39:07  
Both are good tractors. Which one has the closest dealer and how do you like that dealer?



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want_good_tractor

07-25-2006 17:46:06




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to JDB, 07-25-2006 10:16:59  
WOW!!!! Good observation!!! How well do you get along with that dealer...



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want_GOOD_Tractor

07-25-2006 06:41:38




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-24-2006 21:39:07  
Both tractors seem to basicly in the same shape really. The IH at $7500.00 is the asking price. the 8000.00 for the 4020 is the bottom line price for it. I hear something about a Torque Amplifer on the IH what is that? I don't think the JD has a Torque Amplifier. The IH also has both PTO's coming out at the same time as there an advatage here?
Also which is easier to work on or fix?



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big jt

07-25-2006 08:41:50




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-25-2006 06:41:38  
Torque Amplifier (also refered to as TA) was a IH exclusive name.

It allows you to change one gear on the go under load without clutching. For IH it is a weak spot. If the seller is telling you it works just fine with the lever ahead and the tractor stops when it is pulled back the TA is out. NOT KINDA OUT OR HALF OUT IT IS BROKE. Last I checked $750 for the parts plus a fair amount of labor.

4020's had a power shift available which allowed you to change all speeds and directions without touching the clutch. Due to the arrangement of the shift pattern on these though I would recommend against for loader work. Should say the power shift seems to be somewhat more dependable but they get a little more spendy to fix.

JD has another PTO shaft that fits in the same hole for the switch from 540 to 1000. Every company got the second pto speed a little diferent. IH just happened to have both shafts out the back.

HTH

jt

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want_GOOD_Tractor

07-25-2006 10:04:07




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to big jt, 07-25-2006 08:41:50  
Well I guess it seems that the synchro shift on the 4020 is the MOST reliable in this case. I don't really want Power shift. Can the IH be used if the TA is broke?



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Illinois Boy

07-25-2006 12:33:54




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-25-2006 10:04:07  
Yep - it"ll still go and work...
I have a 350 that someone removed the TA from - wish I had it though.



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want_good_tractor

07-25-2006 13:17:40




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-25-2006 12:33:54  
so it would not be a problem if it DI NOT WORK...right? no big deal then..



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Gerald J.

07-25-2006 10:14:20




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-25-2006 10:04:07  
Best I can tell the PS is really tough and lasts long. Its hard to break. The SR is a little less tough and more abusable by the user. The worst thing that can be done to the SR is to tow the tractor with the transmission not in the tow position. That makes the top shaft spin at very high speeds with little lubrication and leads to gears welded to the shaft.

It is true that fixing a truly broken PS is most expensive.

Gerald J.

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Dachshund

07-25-2006 05:10:48




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-24-2006 21:39:07  
Most of the 4020's around here (SE Nebraska) will bring $7500. The 856's are about $7200 (both machines in good condition, ready for work). Both are good machines, but the repair bills on the JD will be higher (here anyhoo) just because of the green paint. Neighbor has a 67 (?) 4020 and an IH 806. He's partial to JD, but admits that the red parts are cheaper. You really couldn't go wrong with either. I'd lean to the Red one, but my Dad used to work for IH, so I'm biased!

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MN Bob

07-25-2006 04:48:56




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-24-2006 21:39:07  
As you can see from the other posts, prices vary with areas of the country. A very clean 4020 Deisel with 3 point is for sale near here for 7500. at a dealer. IH 856 I have not used or worked on but Allan would know more about them. My 4010 with 4020 upgrade is great. Agree that the transmission is great for loader work. Just dont get color blind. Deere usually brings more $ at auction. name recognition?

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JDknut

07-25-2006 03:33:17




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-24-2006 21:39:07  
They're both very good. It basically depends on which one is in the better shape for the money. Also the dealership situation in your area. The Deere might be easier to get parts for, but then again if the nearest Deere dealer is a long way away and the Case-IH dealer is just down the road ....



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big jt

07-24-2006 23:53:18




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-24-2006 21:39:07  
How are you going to use?

I would lean towards the 4020. The 856 sounds a little high to me.

I am assuming that otherwise these are comperable tractors. ie about the same condition, probably diesal etc.

If you are intending to use on a loader and the 4020 in a synchro range the decision is a hands down one get the deere. In my opinion the trans set up on the 856 leaves a little to be desired for loader work and the Synchro 4020 has a in line shift pattern.

Keep in mind this opinion is mine and may be worth just what you paid for it. Your milage may vary.

jt

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RustyFarmall

07-24-2006 22:43:18




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-24-2006 21:39:07  
When I farmed I owned an 856 and my dad owned a 4020. One was as good as the other, each would do the same work as the other, and you could swap implements from one tractor to the other. Neither one gave any more trouble than the other.
Both of the tractors you are looking at are priced too high, unless they are in exceptionally good condition.



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north marcum

07-25-2006 13:42:20




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to RustyFarmall, 07-24-2006 22:43:18  
Had both on the farm, when dad retired and agree they are both good tractors. the deere might be a bit more nimble, the ih a bit more powerful if the ta is working. kj



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ZachOH

07-24-2006 22:33:39




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 Re: 4020 or 856? PLEASE HELP!!! in reply to want_GOOD_Tractor, 07-24-2006 21:39:07  
Never had an 856. Did have a 4020 though. Great tractor! Very dependable and a great all around workhorse. As far as repairs, wouldn't know too much about that, never had to do much to it. 8,000 sounds cheap for a 4020 though. Does it have a lot of hours on it? Good Luck.



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