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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT...Granny Emergency

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John M

07-12-2006 18:40:14




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My granny has a 05 Chevy Impala that has intermiten brake problems. She doesnt travel much in it, and yes its still under warranty,but the dealer cant find any thing. I thought at first she was losing it, but after tonite I now know for my self what its doing. IF it sits for any amount of time,say an hour or two or longer, the brake pedal goes to the floor, but pump it a few times and they seem to be fine. I slammed them pretty hard from 70 mph and they worked just fine. Went out an hour later and no brakes.I had the pedal to the floor and the gear shifter was in reverse and it backed up.ANy body had anything like this happen?

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Vern-MI

07-13-2006 10:14:49




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:40:14  
I'm going to assume that your Impala has the Delco ABS VI System. It sounds like you have a problem with one of the ABS solenoids leaking. The solenoids can be tested by first releasing the motor for the circuit under test, then turning on the solenoid with the scanner tool. You want to take it to a reputable service shop so they can use their scanner / controller. When the pedal is depressed, it should be very high and firm. If the pedal goes nearly to the floor, the solenoid may be leaking or not fully closing, and / or the check ball for that circuit may be leaking. While holding pressure on the pedal, turn the solenoid off with your scanner. The brake pedal should drop immediately. It could also be an intermittent problem with your Electronic Brake Control Module (EBCM) not turning on the solenoid for some reason such as a poor connection or bad wire or just a bad module.

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souNdguy

07-13-2006 07:26:16




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:40:14  
I feel your pain. I have a yukon XL.. it's had 2 big warranty issues. First one took out 95% of the electrical. Out of 3000$ worth of repairs.. I managed to get back all but about 800$.. wasn't happy.. but hey.. I'm glad warranty covers most of it.

( the problem centered around the ABS controller )

Next was a fuel gauge issue.. it stopped working.

I had that truck up there 3-4 times before it was fixed. 2nd time was for recall work. Each time I was told it was fixed.

On the next to last time my wife picked up the truck a few days before she had to drive out of state on a teachers conference. The day before she left.. we realized that the gauge was STILL NOT working. So she had to drive a few statres away and back keeping track of milage. It was a PITA stopping for gas just to make sure. I sent her with a couple of those 'safe' emergency fuel jugs that have the stuff you dump in and then immediatly limp to a gas station on.. just for emergency.

I called up the dealership and let them have it with both barrels. I wrote a letter to the owner of the dealership.. to GM, and every important person in the company/dealership i could find.

I let them know the whole story. And pointed out that we have 4 vehicles.. and would NEVER -EVER- buy a gm again after this treatment. And that if there were any issues like a breakdown/out of gas problem for my wife out of town, that the most deffinately would be hearing from a lawyer.

At this point I didn't want to hear from the shop service manager... he was a useless wet rag... And I told that to the dealership owner, and the general manager.. who.. i guess after getting a call from the dealership owner was very interested in helping me with my problem. When i went in and dropped that vehicle off for the last time, i made it clear that I would have no dealings with the service manager.. so if paperwork needed to be signed.. they had better arange for someone else to walk it over to me.. etc.

Bad ordeal.. took weeks to get straight.. AND I'll still probably never consider a GM vehicle again unless major changes occur. / dealership changes hands and management.

Another thing i thought was going to be an issue, was that my warranty ran out after the first few attempts to fix it.. but after the final attempt that did fix it. I thought they may try to #$%^ me with the bill since the last repair happened after warranty expiration.. but was pleasently surprised ( guess it had to happen once during that ordeal ) that it all got warrantied. Took about 30 phone calls, letters and threat of legal action to get GM and the dealership to do what they should on that vehicle... It shouldn't be that hard....

Soundguy

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CLW

07-13-2006 08:45:36




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to souNdguy, 07-13-2006 07:26:16  
If you have a car or truck in for, say a brake problem, while it is under warranty and you have the same problem after the warranty is out they will fix it for free. Now if you went back with the same problem five years later and 102,000 miles I don't think it will be fixed. But at 45,000 or so on a 36,000 mile warranty they are suppose to fix it.



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Hobo,NC

07-13-2006 06:27:28




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:40:14  
file a complant here, they will git the ball roll'in if their izz a problem. I had a drivabilty problem with a yota, dealer and I knew the problem but yota would not fix it said the update to the EPA had not been ok'ed yet. It would lay flat on its face when you pulled out into trafic. One day 2 men showed up from the NHTSA and next day problem fixed seems yota out of the blue had a fix for it. It did take sum time but worth it. I did not care if the EPA oked it I wanted to bark the tars when needed.

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PJBROWN

07-13-2006 05:37:34




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 A friend had same problem....... in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:40:14  
A friend of mine had the same problem with his 2005 3/4 ton GMC truck. He ended up rear ending someone down in Boston... To make a long story short GMC end up paying for everything. Seeing how he had it in the shop a ffew times before the rear ending.. They all so put a all new breaking system in the truck. It had to do with the ABS and the compter system.



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Bill in NorthCentral PA

07-13-2006 05:32:31




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:40:14  
I have had problems with things (like most people). How about going to the Owner of the dealership. I find they respond well when placed in the position of not receiving any more money as well as receiving bad publicity - One time I told them I would make it my goal to tell at least three people every day of how they had done business. They didn't care and I tell every person who might use their services about them.

Best of luck with a tough situation.

Bill

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John M

07-13-2006 03:56:34




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:40:14  
Well, gentleman, Her getting rid of this car is probably out of the question. It was bought because she totaled her previuos car and this is the last car shell buy. The dealer it will go to today in the last one in the state that is close to us, and if the ycant find the problem, then the lawyers will get involved. Shes only had this car a few mon ths and has only put 1100 miles on it.



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Glen in TX

07-12-2006 22:06:37




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:40:14  
Look and see if you can find a phone number in manual about calling for warranty problems? It will get you in touch with regional rep over the dealers. You need to turn them in and if you get some BS about oh the rep is on vacation don't believe it and keep calling or get a lawyer on them. I had 3 GM lemon engines and after I got area rep on the dealer's back the problem got solved pronto!



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Allan In NE

07-12-2006 19:17:21




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:40:14  
Maybe I'm a big wooose 'er something, but I'd tell Granny to just trade that car off and save everyone a bunch of grief.

If you've had it to 6 dealers and they've replaced the master cylinder and anti-lock system, they are never gonna find the problem.

That system is a dual safety setup as well. Can't really figure out how both systems would fail at the same time.

Dump it,

Allan



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Eddie M

07-12-2006 19:21:50




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to Allan In NE, 07-12-2006 19:17:21  
Dump it so someone else can get killed in it?

It's not granny's fault GM can't fix their own product. There are lemon laws for this sort of thing.



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Allan In NE

07-12-2006 19:32:46




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to Eddie M, 07-12-2006 19:21:50  
Have you actually ever watched that buyback process in action? What a can of worms!

The woman just doesn't wanna wait that long, I'm tellin' ya.

Allan



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Eddie M

07-12-2006 19:39:47




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to Allan In NE, 07-12-2006 19:32:46  
You think it would better for her to sell a car knowing it has brake problems? That puts HER on the hook for liability, not GM.



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Allan In NE

07-12-2006 20:06:51




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to Eddie M, 07-12-2006 19:39:47  
How in the heck do you figure that?

She's got 6 warranty printouts for the same identical problem for criminey sakes and she's tried everything in her power to get it repaired.

I didn't say she ought to sell it, I said she ought to trade it; that puts it right back in the dealers' court and he then owns it and is also responsible for car.

The woman can certainly sue for buyback or she can trade the silly car off. I'm just saying that I would never want to see any relative of mine go thru that process, but it is up to her, I guess.

One thing about the buyback option tho, the car would certainly be pulled off the streets if she's got the stamina.

Allan

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noncompos

07-12-2006 21:31:14




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to Allan In NE, 07-12-2006 20:06:51  
Allan, I think trading it back in could be tricky as far as liability is concerned--I'd say she'd have to have a signed, notarized statement from the dealer acknowledging it had the known(described) brake defect--the first thing the dealers atty would claim was "my client understood the problem was fixed, he had no knowledge of a continuing problem" etc. Sorry, we didn't make the world, we just see the worst possible possibilities. With sympathy.

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NC Wayne

07-12-2006 19:16:21




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:40:14  
I have to agree with the other posts, it sounds like an ABS problem. I had a problem with a Ford that as doing just the opposite, the brake was staying on. It took the dealership three tries to get it right. They thought I was crazy and said their computer couldn't find anything wrong to make it do what I told them it was doing, and what they "fixed" the first two wasn't even part of the problem. I did exactly what one of the posts said, I threatened to get a lawyer involved after the second time and having had it in their shop nearly a week each time. Needless to say the third time they actually took the time to think about the problem and do some research beyond what their "Computer god" told them and actually got the problem fixed. Yes it cost them nearly $4000 for all the ABS parts but it was under warranty so it didn't cost me a dime. Good luck.

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jmixigo

07-12-2006 19:08:04




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:40:14  
The GM warranty program has gone to hell.
Here is is what you do:
1- YOU take it to the selling dealer.
2-Tell the service writer(as a group I hate those people) that this is the SEVENTH time this vehicle has been to an authorized for warranty brake work and the problem has not been resolved.
3-Then say the majik words "If it is not FIXED this time, my attorney will be in touch."
4- Mean what you say!

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jmixigo

07-13-2006 06:21:03




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to jmixigo, 07-12-2006 19:08:04  
As I no longer work for a GM dealer, and at my age never will again, I'll give ya'll a little insight about the system.
1-Customer brings car to service writer and says,"the brake pedal goes to the floor with no effect SOMETIMES-usually after it has sat for a while. The problem sort of comes and goes, but we need brakes all the time."
2-Service writer scribbles "intermittant brake problem" on work order.
3-Tech is assigned to fix the brakes on the '05 Impala. Dealerships don't employ mechanics these days because they are too slow.
4-Tech plugs in scan tool, and if a code pops up he or she "fixes the code". If no codes are found then "step next" is an either or situation; a lazy tech will claim the problem is Granny's head-a creative tech will draw from parts a new master cylender or ABS controller, quickly place it in his box, and either one of them will send the car out the back door quick enough to keep a high effiency rating.
5-The service writer will then hold the car long enough to be convincing, and claim to the customer that "we have tried every thing in the world on this car."
6-The customer goes home, never complains, takes the car to another dealer, and gets the same treatment again.
6-The service writer, service manager, and tech all draw a commision on their "labor", and never consider Granny again.
To get this resolved either you or Granny or somebody has to become the dealer's "real pain in the ass". One call to the national service hotline is not going to do it.

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Joe-Bob/IN

07-12-2006 19:04:19




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 Lemon Law? in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:40:14  
You may be able to get a new car under the Lemon Law. If it has been in 3 times for the same problem then no matter what you have, car-radio-blender-camera-bulldozer-etc..., as long as it is still under warranty they have to replace it free of charge. I would take it to another dealer yet and make sure you get it to act up while a tech is in it. Really no other way to get them to solve it probably.

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Leland

07-12-2006 18:44:58




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:40:14  
Find another GM dealer GM has had a lot of ABS problems thru the years they can't or won't fix . In the back of the owners manual there should be a GM complant number call them first then a number for the federal goverment call them if all else fails .



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John M

07-12-2006 18:49:02




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to Leland, 07-12-2006 18:44:58  
Just curious if you know, can other GM divisions work on other GM division now? Like, could say I take it to a Buick dealer and let them fix it under warranty. I know they wouldnt in the past.It would HAVE to go the a Chevy Dealer!



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Mike M

07-13-2006 07:04:11




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:49:02  
Alot of dealers now can do cross warranty. They may not want to do it though unless it's their own car they picked up at auction.

Call GM headquarters and get the ball rolling--brakes or lack there of is serious ! Too bad in this world you have to resort to being a bi*$h but that's what it's going to take.



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Eddie M

07-12-2006 18:57:48




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:49:02  
I emailed my BIL. He is a servive manager for GM. He has diagnosed problems on my Chev pickup that my local dealer said didn't exist. More or less accused me of hearing things. ( They don't like me so much anymore)



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Eddie M

07-12-2006 18:43:03




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:40:14  
Take it to another dealer before someone gets killed.



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John M

07-12-2006 18:46:50




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to Eddie M, 07-12-2006 18:43:03  
Its been to 6 dealers already. Even had one keep it for a week, but every time he went to check it the brakes worked fine. One replaced the master cylinder, another replaced something with the ABS, and the others couldnt get it to act up, or they just didnt give a @#$&.



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noncompos

07-12-2006 19:22:08




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:46:50  
John: If you haven"t already, get onto a couple GM/Chevy forums, post your problem and run their archives (all to see how widespread your or other brake problems are). Dig up a site that lists the TSB"s (technical Service Bulletins, often called "secret warranties": they"re factory directives to dealers on how to fix problems that crop up after the cars are on the road, and sometimes authorize dealers to bill the factory for costs even if out of warranty) Try to find a shop/mechanic who is a member of iATA (Int"l Auto Technicians Assn, I think) it"s a worldwide net of mechanics with a website on which they post their weird or insoluble problems, just like these boards, and if it"s a recurring problem the answer might be in their archives. Good luck. OOps: PS: consider the possibility your ins co may refuse to pay if there"s an acccident, on the grounds a knowingly dangerous car was being driven..With Sympathy.

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504-1

07-12-2006 19:20:28




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 Re: OT...Granny Emergency in reply to John M, 07-12-2006 18:46:50  
Yes any GM Dealer can warranty a GM car or truck. Check the law in your state, here 3 times and no fix you can make them buy it back but every state is differant. Call the feds on a brake problem they realy like to build a fire on SAFTY problems.



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