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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

327 and 350

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bm3501466

05-19-2006 21:16:50




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What is the difference between a short block and a long block? Do they bolt in the same way? I have a Massey 44 with a 327. The engine is locked up. I am looking for a replacement engine. Could someone explain to me the size differences and the way the blocks bolt in?




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buickanddeere

05-20-2006 17:02:45




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 Re: 327 and 350 in reply to bm3501466, 05-19-2006 21:16:50  
Link If you have to keep the old small block style then the LT4 Corvette heads, manifold etc from GM bolted onto L98 or something engine is the hot ticket for lots of cheap HP. Otherwise the LQ6, LS6 etc generation of new chev engines make the old small & most big blocks look sick.



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Jon Hagen

05-20-2006 10:46:17




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 Re: 327 and 350 in reply to bm3501466, 05-19-2006 21:16:50  
A 350 is a bolt in for an older Massey combine that has a 327,in fact the late 510's had 350's factory installed,as did the few early gas engined 750's. The only caution is that a much later vintage 350 MAY not have the same accessory mounting holes on the front and rear of the heads as an early 327,so check before you buy. I would perfer the 350 in a combine,the longer stroke engine has more low rpm torque to better maintain cylinder speed in tough harvest conditions.

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Keith-OR

05-19-2006 21:50:57




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 Re: 327 and 350 in reply to bm3501466, 05-19-2006 21:16:50  
Not sure what you want, but in 1963 GM made all engines with the same bell housing bolt pattern. A 230,250, 292, 327, 350, 400 SM,396,400BB, 427, 454, all have the same bolt pattern on bellhousing. The big differences were the size of flywheel and diameter of pressure plates and clutch disk. Most of the cast iron bell housing will except the larger flywheel and pressure plate. Even flywheels interchange.

So what's your question?

Keith & Shawn

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RAB

05-19-2006 21:46:33




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 Re: 327 and 350 in reply to bm3501466, 05-19-2006 21:16:50  
As below, short block is the minimum parts necessary for a crank and bore recondition. Crank + bearings, cam + timing gear, pistons, rods. All fitted ready to rebuild with the rest of your old parts.
Long block is the more complete reconditioned unit. Will include ancillaries such as oil pump, sump. filter housings, probably head + valve gear and flywheel. Rebuilt ready to fit.
So, a long block has had more reconditioning and is consequently more expensive, but requires less work to refit. But in both cases the block will be the same. Usually you have to pay a deposit, on purchase, to ensure the return of the out of spec (used) items, for a return of your deposit - as long as they are reconditionable, and identical to the reconditioned items.
Regards, RAB

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Steve Crum

05-19-2006 21:32:40




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 Re: 327 and 350 in reply to bm3501466, 05-19-2006 21:16:50  
I'm not sure on the Masseys but if your talking Chevys I'd take a 327 over a 350 any day.
As far as a short block or long block, usually a short block refers to an engine block with all the reciprocating components installed ie; pistons , rods, crank, cam and timing equipment.
A long block is usually all of the above plus the heads and valve assemblies, oil pump and pan, valve covers and timing cover. Manifolds, carb, distributer, water pump and all other external items are not included and are taken off the engine being replaced and cleaned up and put on the new long block. Nomenclature in other areas may vary.

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IA Roy

05-19-2006 21:25:56




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 Re: 327 and 350 in reply to bm3501466, 05-19-2006 21:16:50  
A 350 has the same bore (4")and a longer stroke than the 327 (3.48 vs 3.25?)
A short block is the block, crank, pistons, rods, cam etc.
A long block also has the heads in addition to the above. There are probably some things that I forgot. There are also 2 bolt main bearing caps and 4 bolt main bearing caps. The 4 bolt are heavier duty. Essentially the 350 is a direct replacement for the 327.

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bm3501466

05-19-2006 21:33:17




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 Re: 327 and 350 in reply to IA Roy, 05-19-2006 21:25:56  
Sorry, I meant Big Block and small block.



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jdemaris

05-20-2006 06:26:32




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 Re: Small block, big block, and other in reply to bm3501466, 05-19-2006 21:33:17  
With the older Chevy stuff - mid-50s to 70s - they had three basic V-8 blocks - small block, big block, and the "other". The "other" has a name - just can't recall it - W Block maybe? Small blocks included (at least) the 265-283-302-305-307-327-350-400. Big blocks included 366-396-402-427-454. The other - 348-409-427. Note - the odd-ball "other" 427 is extremely rare and only a few were made. The GM diesels - 379 (6.2 litre) and the 396 (6.5 litre) use the same small-block Chevy bolt pattern. Also keep in mind that Chevy changed the standard bolt pattern back around 40 years ago - I don't recall exactly when. But - a 265 V-8 out of a 55 Chevy has a different bolt-pattern than, let's say, a 1970 vintage 350.

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Allan In NE

05-20-2006 07:30:37




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 Re: Small block, big block, and other in reply to jdemaris, 05-20-2006 06:26:32  
JD,

All the engines' bolt patterns are all the same and have been for 60 some years.

You're thinking of the tranny bolt pattern. Some of those old ones and the trucks used a funky cast iron "adaptor" in between the engine and trasmission that allowed a 3-bolt lateral mount starter and mounting of the rear motor mounts. The hogs head bolt patterns are all the same right up the line, however.

Should be able to bolt a 1955 265 right up to a 2007 4L80E tranny.

Allan

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jdemaris

05-20-2006 09:29:27




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 Re: Small block, big block, and other in reply to Allan In NE, 05-20-2006 07:30:37  
Yes, no problems with the transmission bolt-pattern as far as I know. I've got a 65 Chevelle with a 327 mated to a 700R4. One of the changes I was referring to is the engine-mount and starter location and bolt-hole arrangement. I don't recall exactly when, and on what, it was changed - but it was somewhere early 60s I believe. I discovered that for the first time when my friend wrecked his almost new Z28 with a high-output 302. We tried to put that engine into my 56 Chevy Two-Ten - but it was not a bolt-in swap. The mounts were completely different than the original 265. This was way before the Internet was created, and our main source of info was the many engine swapping books that used to be popular. I wished I had saved them - such swapping is a dead art here in the northeast. Again, in regard to the Chevy engine interchanges - there were also a few specialty mid-60s Chevy II small blocks that were different from all the rest - I don't remember exactly what the difference was - but I think it was engine mounts and starter location. Also, in regard to the Chevy small-blocks, there were a few 90 degree Olds V-8 and V-6 engines that used the same bell-housing pattern. One, that we used quite often, was the Olds aluminum 215 cubic inch V-8. First one I used, I put into a 1964 MGB with a Chevy bellhousing and Muncie four-speed. Did the same thing later into a Triumph GT6. The Olds aluminum V-8 weighed less than the cast-iron four cylinder engine that came out of the MGB. G.M. used that engine in several cars including the 61 Ponticac Tempest, 61 Olds F85, and the Buick 61 Special and Skylark. In 62, Olds put a turbo on the thing and put it into the Jetfire. It was rated 215 horsepower which is pretty amazing. Then, GM sold the engine rights to British Leyland and the 215 V-8 got used OEM in the Truimph Stag, the MGC, and finally Rover. I was reading recently that it's still a very popular engine in Europe for engine-swaps into small cars and trucks. For all I know, they're still making the engine over there. If so, that's pretty good for a 45 year old engine.

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J.C.H.

05-19-2006 21:44:28




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 Re: 327 and 350 in reply to bm3501466, 05-19-2006 21:33:17  
GM 350-Small Block Family----GM 454,502 Big Block Family.



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