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Grumpy 1370 response

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Marv

04-07-2006 07:32:37




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Thanks for your reply. I want to update you on what we have done so far. The radiator was pressurized at 15 psi for 36 hours and no evidence of a antifreeze leak past any of the sleeves. The heads are still on the engine. With your diganosis of either a cracked sleeve or a sleeve needing a shim, what sould be my next move? Would it make sense to pressurize each cylinder by forcing air in the injector hole in an attempt to isolate the bad sleeve(s) or just remove all three heads and go from there. My coffee shop buddies suggest I find another 504 engine and switch them out. I have had this tractor for several years and use it to run a munure pump. It has been a good tractor and hate to part with it. Any suggestions?

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Ol Chief

04-07-2006 20:20:52




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 Re: Grumpy 1370 response in reply to Marv, 04-07-2006 07:32:37  
Hello Marv;Sorry That I have misunderstood your problem.Somehow I had the impression that you had a problem with water getting into the crankcase oil.I guess I missed your original post but have not been able to locate it on my puter.If the problem is one of having bubbles in the radiator then disregard my last reply.I have had past experience on several German built diesels having porosity in cylinder sleeves.Upon visual examanination all sleeves appeared to be in perfect condition with all heads removed and pistons at bottom dead center.After replacing all heads and start up all water would be blown out of the cooling system within five minutes.As you mentioned in your post the possibility of testing each cylinder with use of compressed air thru the injector port is exactly the method I used to find the leaking sleeve.I was able to find the leaking sleeve with only 170 psi air.However if this leak is not evident with low pressure air it may only be a leak at near compression pressure.In that case I certainly would not test with any thing except High Pressure Nitrogen because of diesel effect upon any oil remaining in the cylinder.DO NOT USE HP OXYGEN.A leased cyl. of nitrogen is not expensive.In my case opon removal of the faulty sleeves they were picture perfect inside, however the outsides looked more like a sponge.This porosity allowed compression pressure to leak thru the grain of the cast iron sleeve and blow water out of the cooling systrm.

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Grumpy

04-07-2006 16:00:55




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 Re: Grumpy 1370 response in reply to Marv, 04-07-2006 07:32:37  
Bubbles in radiator indicate compression leak into radiator. With tractor warm and running at full throttle pull throttle clear back to idle. If radiator pushes water out overflow it could be an indication of a cracked sleeve. I have tried to diagnose witch cylinder to fix only to take back apart to do another cylinder. I now pull all sleeves and check all for cracks. If tractor is running hot and not loosing to much water take radiator off of tractor and wash fins with power washer. These tractors do not run hot if the radiator is clean. Stan

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c hess

04-07-2006 11:40:59




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 Re: Grumpy 1370 response in reply to Marv, 04-07-2006 07:32:37  
Just read all coments on 1370 an am not sure if you are getting a lot of bubbles or ocasional one. If you arent loosing lot ofwater i would put sealer in as other said an try it. We use to put Bars leak rabbit turds in all motors till we got 2390 with filter. You said it runs hot but how hot?If it doesnt blow water out while on manure pump an only pushes a bubble now an than ideling i wouldput sealer in an run it. However if it pushes water out that is another matter an you should start by checking rear cylinder.Cavitation takes place there at bottom of cylinder in line with wrist pin. How many hrs on engine an has it ever been over hauled?

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Bill in Colo

04-07-2006 11:24:38




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 Re: Grumpy 1370 response in reply to Marv, 04-07-2006 07:32:37  
had a 504 go south about 15 years ago bad cooler on a 2470. It would only leak at 185 deqrees and 22psi on the coolant. used oem parts to repair as they were cheaper. if the engine was early production and has not been apart the sleeves will have one oring, the newer style will have three, much less chance to leak.



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Ol Chief

04-07-2006 10:25:41




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 Re: Grumpy 1370 response in reply to Marv, 04-07-2006 07:32:37  
Opps.Marv; please cancel my first thought about an oil cooler, as a leak there would not cause water in oil due to oil pressure being greater than coolant pressure.However,on second thought there is possibly a change in some item caused by heat expansion.I am wondering if you may have an sleeve O-ring becoming softend from heat.Have you tried operating with the radiator cap off so that there is nearly zero pressure in the cooling system. ON THE OTHER HAND.On I can visualize either a small crack or maybe a pit or porosity in the block which only opens under hot conditions.If all else fails possibly a treatment with K & W block seal may solve the problem.I have used this stuff successfully with no bad results in spite of critisizm by others.

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Ol Chief

04-07-2006 08:58:22




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 Re: Grumpy 1370 response in reply to Marv, 04-07-2006 07:32:37  
Does your 1370 have an oil cooler?If so it may be leaking.I am not intimately familiar with your machine though I have several old case tractors.I cannot see a possibility of a cracked sleeve without having compression leakage to the coolant side,in which case you would have been building a pressure in the radiator.I am stumped on this problem.I you do not get any other help here I suggest you contact your local Case dealer and ask him for a referal to the branch block manager then ask to speak to their block service manager. I am not familiar with how Case manages their business presently but in days gone by there were branches set up that were headquarters for several states.Each branch had a service manager for mechanical problems Anyway,this has to be a solveable problem.I will continue to think about this situation because there is no cause without an effect,and no affect without a cause.Will revert if I can think this out. Good luck ,keep us posted.Ol Chief

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BEWILDERED

04-07-2006 07:46:19




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 Re: Grumpy 1370 response in reply to Marv, 04-07-2006 07:32:37  
I worked on a AC 190 with the same problem, would not leak setting there under pressure. Water in the oil every time I ran it. Had a small rust hole in the bottom of one sleeve. Engine always stoped with that piston down. Try turning the crakshaft 180 degrees so the pistons are setting in a different location. Hope it helps. I only had to replace on sleeve.



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