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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Using Windmill to drain land........

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davpal

04-05-2006 22:33:52




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I have a windmill question for anybody who has experience with them. We have about 35 acres of really good river bottom ground but it is low and needs some tile. It doesn't have a good enough grade to a ditch to just drain it so it would have to be most likely pumped up into a ditch to get rid of the water. I was thinking of running some tile to about a 6 foot deep crock or ditch and pumping that out into a close by ditch with a windmill for power. It is quite a ways off the road so it would have to have electricity run back if I wanted an electric pump, not to mention building a pump house and or using a diesel powered pump which would be quite expensive. I think a windmill would sit there and pump all day and night and eventually drain the tile from the field. I live in Michigan and we have quite a few windy days when you would be getting a lot of free power from the windmill. The last few days here alone probably would have pumped a lot of water off this land. What would really be great is to build a containment pond and pump the water into that in the spring and pump it back out to irrigate the crops in the summer. That may be a far fetched idea but I am wondering if these mills have the capability of doing what I am talking about. Actually just a few strings of tile through this property would make a huge differnce. I have heard 60 cents per foot to put in tile, is this pretty close? I figured if I could put in $5000 dollars worth of tile and maybe a $2000-$3000 dollar windmill and pick up another 10-20 bushels of beans per acre from doing it it would pay for itself in four or five years in better yields (MAYBE!). This idea is far from happening here and these numbers are just for kicks but I am wondering if anybody has a similar set up. I am thinking of the future too as we get into extremely high costs for gas, diesel , natural gas and electricity. I am thinking if this would work it could do the job for years. Anybody done it? Thanks.

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oldfarmtractor

04-06-2006 13:23:30




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 Re: Using Windmill to drain land........ in reply to davpal, 04-05-2006 22:33:52  

Though I am against draining anymore of our wetlands, the windmill is the most reasonable way to go.

When one considers the work done by any machine, you calculate the Work such that W = F*d where F is the weight of the water and d is the height. If you are pumping from a depth of 30feet, you will only get so much water. If you are raising the water only 1 foot, then you should be able to move 30 times the water using the same windmill. This would mean a larger diameter pump or faster stroke or something like that.

But if you do drain the bottom land, where will the natural balance happen? What will you do to replace the environment you will be removing from the ecosystem?

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davpal

04-06-2006 21:31:53




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 Re: Using Windmill to drain land........ in reply to oldfarmtractor, 04-06-2006 13:23:30  
Actually I am not talking about "draining a wetland" I am talking about tiling farm ground that we bought that is wet like everybody else does. We do own 27 acres of wetlands so I know how they operate. This is not the field I am talking about. It is illegal to drain them. I just want to have some tile so the land has the ability to grow the crops it could if it were properly tiled. We have pumps all over this area but most of them are electric and dump into a ditch near the land. I would just be using wind instead of electric or diesel power. We are actually pretty protective of the natural areas of our land. The kind of guys you like to see buy it so it stays kind of natural for a whole nother generation. Besides, a farmer should have the right to make his ground better. There are people putting tile in all over the country every day so why can't I? Too many people in Lansing are making decisions for farmers and basically driving them out of business. They don't seem to have a problem though when some dipshit comes along and clears a 100 acre woods (habitat) and puts up another walmart or Meijers, or a ridiculous subdivision with another 1000 acres of concrete and then wants a guy like me to keep everything natural so I can soak up all the rainwater for the whole county because they poured concrete on the rest of it! We bought the land to protect it from just that. I hate sprawl and the people that are creating it. We own two farms with a lot of road frontage and I can honestly say nobody is going to be buying any lots off us. Dad likes keeping stuff the same too. Lets put it this way, I would have to be pretty hungry to sell any lots. We have a deer, turky haven out here and that is the way it is going to stay. Besides, I think deer would like the windmill!

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davpal

04-06-2006 10:46:03




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 Re: Using Windmill to drain land........ in reply to davpal, 04-05-2006 22:33:52  
I have done a little research on the windmills on the internet and some of the numbers for what they will pump are staggering. They have some 20 foot diameter beasts capable of pumping over 1 million gallons per hour if I am reading that correctly. That is only lifting the water about a foot with a steady strong wind. Lite to medium winds the big ones are still in the 500,000 gallon per hour range. I wouldn't even think of anything that big but I can see the idea is feasable with the numbers they are throwing around. I am just looking for ways to figure out how to make the land more useful. Yes there are wetlands around the property and I am sure the state will have their nose in it like they do everything but it would be nice to pump the water into the wetland and make part of our land dryland. I would think it could be the best of both worlds. We have technically 50 acres of farmland and 27 acres of weltlands that border it. I can see those ducks looking over there thinking " I wish that guy would dry that up and grow some good crops so we would have some good corn and beans to eat" The state wants me to be stuck and broke though as long as they have water everywhere.

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John in B-ton

04-06-2006 08:07:45




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 Re: Using Windmill to drain land........ in reply to davpal, 04-05-2006 22:33:52  
go to otherpower.com and ask the question on their water discussion board. there are a lot of guy there who use windpower and can give you a few options or suggestions.



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Coloken

04-06-2006 06:49:18




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 Re: Using Windmill to drain land........ in reply to davpal, 04-05-2006 22:33:52  
Take a trip to Holland to see how they do it. Charge the trip off as farm expense.



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Leroy

04-06-2006 18:26:17




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 Re: Using Windmill to drain land........ in reply to Coloken, 04-06-2006 06:49:18  
There is a working Dutch Windmill (only one ever alowed to be taken out of Holland) right there in Michigan in Holland Michigan on the shore of the lake



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Dave NE IA

04-06-2006 06:39:32




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 Re: Using Windmill to drain land........ in reply to davpal, 04-05-2006 22:33:52  
My guess it is like spitting in the ocean, I know of a guy who tried to fill his pond with a windmill / well system. It was a pretty small pond also, and turned out to be a joke after several thousand dollars. I think the concept is good, just a whole lot of (not enough capacity). I would certianly do the math first in any case. Dave NE IA



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Mike M

04-06-2006 06:38:34




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 Re: Using Windmill to drain land........ in reply to davpal, 04-05-2006 22:33:52  
Or maybe fix it up so it holds water and raise fish ?



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fixerupper

04-06-2006 05:50:18




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 Re: Using Windmill to drain land........ in reply to davpal, 04-05-2006 22:33:52  
Cool idea! How big is the wet area? If a windmill pumps 500 GPH (this is just a guess) and IF the wind blows at maybe 20 MPH 24 hours a day you could possibly pump 12000 gallons a day or about one inch of water on 1/2 acre of land if my math is close to correct. Maybe you western cattlemen would have a better idea on this. Jim



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Sid

04-06-2006 05:45:58




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 Re: Using Windmill to drain land........ in reply to davpal, 04-05-2006 22:33:52  
I have an old well on my place that I use to water cattle. When I was using the old hand pump I could pump about 8-10 gals per minute, slow steady strokes, about like a wind mill would do. This figures around 14,000-17,000 gals per day. Would this be fast enough to do any good?



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John (C-IL)

04-06-2006 05:46:13




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 Re: Using Windmill to drain land........ in reply to davpal, 04-05-2006 22:33:52  
The scale of your proposal is all wrong as far as I can see. You won't get enough pumping volume to effectively drain 35 acres.



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djw

04-06-2006 04:57:14




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 Re: Using Windmill to drain land........ in reply to davpal, 04-05-2006 22:33:52  
I love it! I have always been fasinated with wind power. We airate our pond with a windmill. I never thought about using one for drainage but, I would think you could make it work. You will need to winterize it in the winter. let us know if you do it goodluck! Dave



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Jimmy King

04-06-2006 04:43:35




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 Re: Using Windmill to drain land........ in reply to davpal, 04-05-2006 22:33:52  
You had better make sure it is not classified as wet land before you do any thing to it.



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