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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

diesel battery

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mshadow

03-08-2006 17:06:37




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Any diesel mechanics out there? I have a 1955 Oliver Super 77 diesel. It will not start right up without turning over,and over,and over,etc. When it starts,it runs great. I don't know when or if it as ever had an overhaul. I know it could be lack of compression from engine being tired or injection pump not working properly. I have owned this tractor for around nine years and it has always started like this from day one. My question is could the battery,not being up to par,cause this to happen. I have changed the battery a couple times, but always used the old one out of the pickup and got a new one for the truck. I have heard diesels need to turn over fast in order to start properly because of the compression. Also, is there a way to check the compression since there isn't any plugs to remove? Thanks!!

Mike

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Keith-OR

03-08-2006 18:47:59




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 Re: diesel battery in reply to mshadow, 03-08-2006 17:06:37  
Mshadow, My Super 77 has a preheater in the intake. there is a older type starter button on dash, which I push and hold in for 30 to 45 second, this heats up the air coming into the intake. then push the starter rod going to starter. Mine also has an starter fuild injector mounted on the firewall just in front of the fuel tank on the right side of tractor,there is a 1/8 inch line that runs from this injector to a fitting on the intake, pull button on the dash that I pull to inject starting fuild into the intake manifold.

I use a larger battery than normal, have a BMW battery that 16 X 6 1/2, won't fit anything else I have so I use it in S77

Keith & Shawn

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Bill(Wis)

03-08-2006 18:05:46




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 Re: diesel battery in reply to mshadow, 03-08-2006 17:06:37  
My personal observation is: "Olivers do that". At least the ones I've seen. Our neighbors 880 was that way. He burned up quite a few starters over the years. Expensive as I recall. Oliver was one of the first mfg to offer an electric start diesel and that was over 50 years ago. Things have improved since then. My suggestion, in addition to the help already offered, would be to use a heavy duty starter/charger, and, if it's cold where you are, a good preheating sytem. If it is a winter time problem, and your tractor is preferrably in a shed, try covering the engine and entire front end of the tractor down to the floor with a tarp and stick a torpedo heater in between the rear wheels. Let that run until the engine block is warm. By that time you will have warmed everything including the fuel tank and radiator, transmission, rear end, etc. See if that helps. Also, The Oliver board might be a good place to ask the same question.

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JMS/MN

03-08-2006 17:41:58




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 Re: diesel battery in reply to mshadow, 03-08-2006 17:06:37  
Follow the KISS formula- Keep It Simple, Stupid. Not meant as an insult, but other posters touched on it- do the simple things first- adequate battery, good cables, CLEAN and tight connections- no temporary clamps. Check the entire cable- if you see a bulge in it- cut away the insulation- may be corroded internally. Diesels need lotsa amps and quick cranking speed- check that out first before removing components, etc. Pretty mnuch the same with a gas engine, but more critical on a diesel. If it starts fine with an extra battery in series- problem is in the cables, battery, etc.

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jdemaris

03-08-2006 19:58:56




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 Re: JMS/MN diesel battery in reply to JMS/MN, 03-08-2006 17:41:58  
If he's gonna' test it with an extra battery, it should be in parallel, not series. Otherwise he will be doubling the voltage.



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jdemaris

03-08-2006 17:31:19




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 Re: diesel battery in reply to mshadow, 03-08-2006 17:06:37  
When it does first start - does it sound okay - or does it skip and smoke? I'm not an Oliver expert (most of my experience is Deere, Detroit, AC, and Case), but all of the American built Oliver diesels I've worked on were direct injected - so there are no glow-plugs. If that's the case, you take the injectors out and check the compression through an injector hole with an adapter. Engine cranking speed is very important for good starting with a diesel. If you can't tell for sure just by the sound of it, hook a voltmeter to the starter post when cranking. It should be 9-9.5 volts. If it's lower, you probably need more battery (or better connections). One volt at cranking makes a huge difference. You could just try putting jumper cables on it from a second battery source and see if it starts better. Of course, it might even have the wrong and undersized starter - if so - no amount of batteries will make the engine spin fast. In regard to cold-starting and other problems. If the compression is low, it should skip and smoke more than usual when cold. In regard to the injection pump, it's pretty unlikely that it is going to affect cold-starting if it's working okay once warm. Especially a distributor pump - if it has a Roosamaster. When they get worn, they tend to start hard when the engine gets hot - not cold. If the fuel-delivery is set too low on the pump, it WILL start very hard when cold, but will also be underpowered when warm. With the injectors, even if they are really beat, if they're working well enough for the engine to run okay, it's very unlikely they will effect cold starting. I've pulled injectors out of good staring engines that barely worked at all and just dribbled fuel. There are many other things to cause the problem, especially if it's been this way since you owned it. I could write a long essay on it, but I'm not sure you're interested.

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marlowe

03-08-2006 17:26:31




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 Re: diesel battery in reply to mshadow, 03-08-2006 17:06:37  
did you ever check the draw of the starter? is starter any good? cables big enough. is battery big enough CCA.? low compression on engine? bad pump? bad injectors? and the list can go on. you just have to check things out can be a easy fix or a complet tare down.



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PS

03-08-2006 17:29:29




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 Re: diesel battery in reply to marlowe, 03-08-2006 17:26:31  
you have to pull the injectors to check compression



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