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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

does anybody know how a hydrogen engine works?

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wasbash1

02-10-2006 15:15:18




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Does anyone know you can use hydrogen in a iternal combustion engine such as a inline 6 cylinder chevy engine? Is it hard to convert?




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MarkB_MI

02-11-2006 04:14:05




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 Re: does anybody know how a hydrogen engine works? in reply to wasbash1, 02-10-2006 15:15:18  
Do you have a supply of hydrogen?

I'm sure it's possible to get your chevy to run on hydrogen, but what's your reason for wanting to do it?

Right now, fuel cells are the most promising technology for using hydrogen as a fuel. The biggest problem is storing it. Pure hydrogen has to be liquified or stored at very high pressure in order to get a vehicle with useful range. I understand that GM is working with fuel cell technology that extracts hydrogen from gasoline in the vehicle, but I don't know much about it.

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Dan in Ore

02-11-2006 03:55:09




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 Re: does anybody know how a hydrogen engine works? in reply to wasbash1, 02-10-2006 15:15:18  
Check out the web site below. They have an on-board electrolysis unit that breaks the bond between the hydrogen and oxygen and then sends them both into the air intake. It will work on any engine that burns fossil fuel. When you get there, go to "tech info" and "test results". All you are carrying is a tank of water about the size of a small battery. If you have any further questions e-mail me at dlmjs@e-isco.com.

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buickanddeere

02-11-2006 20:52:12




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 Re: does anybody know how a hydrogen engine works? in reply to Dan in Ore, 02-11-2006 03:55:09  
Where does the energy come from to produce the hydrogen? Why from the engine running on gasoline and hydrogen fuels of course. Is the engine, alternator and electrolysis process 100% efficient? If not somebody has tried to sell you a perpetual motion device.



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Dan in Ore

02-17-2006 17:03:14




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 Re: does anybody know how a hydrogen engine works? in reply to buickanddeere, 02-11-2006 20:52:12  
The way this works is that you are not running the engine on Hydrogen. You are using the hydrogen and oxygen that is derived from the electrolysis process to increase the effeciency of the fossil fuel that you are already burning.

The advantages are better fuel economy, increased power and reduced emissions.



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Jerry/MT

02-10-2006 20:06:58




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 Re: does anybody know how a hydrogen engine works? in reply to wasbash1, 02-10-2006 15:15:18  
Same way that any other spark ignition engine works but you have to develop the engine and the fuel system for the kind of fuel you're using. But why would you want to do that?

Hydrogen is a dangerous fuel because its' so flamable. Bbecause of its low molecular weight , it leaks from fittings unless you use special fittings and there are special requirements for venting the high pressure fuel tanks.
A bigger problem is where to get fuel. During my working years , the company I worked for flew an airplane jet engine with a hydrogen fuel system as an experiment in the late 50's or 60's. It wasn't a problem doing the experiment, but doing it on an everyday basis was another story. If you converted LAX to an all hydrogen powered operation, it would take sixteen 500 megawatt nuclear plants (you could use conventionial electrical power plants but the idea was not to generate more CO2)to supply the hydrogen fuel to operate aircraft from that one airport. And you had to build the fueling infrastructure from scratch. And after that, the water vapor that's exhausted is also a "greenhouse" gas.
I am not one to put down new ways of doing things but without some sort of breakthrough in hydrogen producibility I think that depending on hydrogen to solve the world's energy needs (and this talk comes up every time we get a jump in energy prices)is premature. We should be looking at a bunch a different technologies (bio fuels, ethanol, etc.) as well a hydrogen, but these folks that tell you that hydrogen power is just around the corner are just selling snake oil. I will now get off my soapbox.

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Handyman

02-11-2006 21:39:44




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 Re: does anybody know how a hydrogen engine works? in reply to Jerry/MT, 02-10-2006 20:06:58  
Here in Idaho the I.N.L. is doing research on using a nuclear reactor to produce large quantities of hydogen through a high temp electrolysis process in the reactor itself. not sure how they plan to deliver hydrogen to fueling stations yet



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buickanddeere

02-10-2006 17:21:10




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 Re: does anybody know how a hydrogen engine works? in reply to wasbash1, 02-10-2006 15:15:18  
Hydrogen has an octane rating about a slow as ether. H2 will probably knock in an all-fuel engine. Hydrogen works better in a gas turbine, boiler or fuel cell. Hydrogen is nasty stuff to transport. The molecule of H2 is so small they seep through just about any material. Hydrogen can make metal brittle as well. Storing cryogenic H2 can be dangerous and $$$. Storing H2 in a low pressure cylinder with “hydride" I think it's called works fairly well. Bulky and heavy per btu to store however.

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John T

02-10-2006 18:52:35




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 Re: does anybody know how a hydrogen engine works? in reply to buickanddeere, 02-10-2006 17:21:10  
Glen, isnt the fuel cell the most likely trend for hydrogen powered/electric cars??? I saw on the Discovery or Science channel something about a way to convert and store hydrogen in a solid form thats less expolsive and hazardous, Im not sure what agents or how its converted to a solid form but it didnt have the leak problems nor the volatility. I guess it can be manufactured from water and electricity and each "filling station" makes their own thus eliminating the transporation and storage costs. Not to worry, Exxon and Mobil and BP etc will still own all the filling stations, Id hate to see them loose out lol

Look forward to chatting at GOG

John T

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buickanddeere

02-10-2006 20:37:27




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 Re: does anybody know how a hydrogen engine works? in reply to John T, 02-10-2006 18:52:35  
It would take a pretty robust hydro service into every hydrogen filling station. Hundreds of new nuclear units would be required to power the system. Even at that, most of the H2 filling would have to be done during electrical "off peak". The fuel cell and electric motor would be the way to go. A small battery bank for brief periods of extra power would be required on the vehicle as well. We store tritium which is a radioactive isotope form of hydrogen at Darlington. The hydrogen is absorbed into a "sponge" inside a low pressure metal vessel. Not unlike storing acetylene in acetone for the oxy acetylene torque sets. As previously stated H2 is a real swine to contain as the little wee molecules pass through just about any material. In my humble opinion running vehicles on grain/ethyl or better yet methyl alcohol would be the answer. Methyl can be made from steam and natural gas mixed in the presence of a catalyst. With abundant steam and hydrogen from nuclear power and reforming “low grade” carbon fuels into clean burning alcohol is a possibility. We could also put up hundreds of thousands of windmills rated at 1.5Mw each.Use nuclear as base load and burn coal on "no wind" days to provide peaking power.

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old

02-10-2006 16:56:34




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 Re: does anybody know how a hydrogen engine works? in reply to wasbash1, 02-10-2006 15:15:18  
Yep can be done but you need a propane type of carb set up but set up for hydrogen. It has a lot more bang to the once so to speak then propane and you can also have a rust problem because of the fact that when you burn hydrogen you get water.



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ricedaddy

02-10-2006 16:05:04




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 Re: does anybody know how a hydrogen engine works? in reply to wasbash1, 02-10-2006 15:15:18  
Do a search on google, university of cambridge, hyrogen engine



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bm3501466

02-10-2006 16:04:08




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 Re: does anybody know how a hydrogen engine works? in reply to wasbash1, 02-10-2006 15:15:18  
Sounds dangerous. Stick with Hydrogen electric.



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