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NASCAR

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danged ifino

01-13-2006 19:38:09




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uses what gas in their tires?.Nitrogen? Enybody use it in there antique tractor tires so they won't go flat from setting around so long?They say reglar air will leak right through a rubber tire after a while.This gas won't?




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buickanddeere

01-14-2006 06:50:45




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 Re: NASCAR in your car in reply to danged ifino, 01-13-2006 19:38:09  
As previously stated. Nitrogen varies its pressure in tires with temperature almost identical to air. Nitrogen is a cheap gas to purchase so high school chemistry class dropouts can be over charged $$$ to fill their tires. The biggies for aircraft are #1Bottled nitrogen has been dried so fewer corrosion concerns. #2 Pure nitrogen does not support combustion. A tire is hottest on the inside. During heavy braking or extended running with heavy loads at high speed with under inflated tires. You do not want the tire to begin burning inside. The extra heat and pressure from flames can be the difference between a blow out and not having a blow out.

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RAB

01-14-2006 02:13:12




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to danged ifino, 01-13-2006 19:38:09  
Regular air has stayed in some tyres for years and years without leaking out.
Nitrogen has a vapour density of 14. Air is slightly above that.
Diffusion rate of gases (like going through rubber - unless there is a defect like a puncture) increases as the vapour density reduces, so hydrogen and helium would be lost fastest. Nitrogen diffuses quite a deal faster than oxygen.

PV = nRT This is the General Gas Equation, where P = Pressure, V = Volume, n = a constant (relating to the number of molecules in a given amount of matter), R = constant (for an IDEAL gas), and T = Temperature. All units would be S.I. units these days (Pascals, cubic metres, and Kelvin for the variables) so that calculations are kept relatively simple.
Now this equation will need a slightly different value of R when we are dealing with non-ideal gases, so if one uses a pure substance (well a pure gas) that constant will be fixed and not vary even ever so slightly under relatively similar conditions. Real life situations give close enough answers just using R - it is only scientists doing very precise experiments who would even consider different real values.

Now, air is a mixture and contains vapours as well as gases. Vapours do not conform to the gas equations as, by definition, a vapour can be changed to another state by changing the pressure at any given temperature (an example is propane - in a cylinder it is liquid, but if you open the valve it changes to a vapour (most people erroneously say a gas!)
Water and carbon dioxide are both vapours in atmospheric air and, further, the water content can vary by a relatvely large amounts at different times.

Now, to get back to the issue here. Atmospheric air will make not a jot of difference to the operation of a tractor tyre that you would ever notice.
Using nitrogen would prevent the innertube, if fitted, from getting wet on the inside - because none should ever be pumped into it from a "wet" compressed air supply as nitrogen bottles should only contain pure nitrogen.

Confused? Forget it all and use plain air. It is cheap and readily available. Leave nitrogen to the extremists, who also want rediculous specific power oututs from their engines, or those that are stupid(?) enough to want to emulate them and are prepared to pay relatively exorbitant amounts of their readily available cash for a tiny improvement that they will not even notice or be able to measure.

Would you check the temperature and change the tyre pressures by a few pascals every time the temperature changed by the odd fraction of a degree. Would you consider if your tractor tyres are running on dry or wet soil? I think not.
RAB

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T_Bone

01-14-2006 09:20:26




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to RAB, 01-14-2006 02:13:12  
Very nice article RAB!

T_Bone



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RAB

01-14-2006 10:09:40




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to T_Bone, 01-14-2006 09:20:26  
Well T_Bone,
Tried to leave out Avogadro"s number explanation and a bit simplified here and there. But it was really just to show that B.S baffles brains..... and those urchins who advocate using it in their road cars have swallowed the B.S - hook, line and sinker!
Regards, RAB



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J.C. IN AZ.

01-13-2006 21:34:54




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to danged ifino, 01-13-2006 19:38:09  
Who says Nascar allows Nitrogen in the tires used for racing? I think not. Safety is utmost on every ones mind when Racing and Nitrogen is not a Safe product to use in Race Car Tires. They'll take straight "Air" thank You.



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Dwight - VA

01-14-2006 03:42:35




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to J.C. IN AZ., 01-13-2006 21:34:54  
Some race tires are inflated with air treated by a special dryer to remove excess moisture, which results in better tire pressure control. While Goodyear's "tire busters" fill all tires at the track with air, many teams will deflate their tires and refill them with nitrogen. Pure nitrogen is "dry air" while regular air can have varying levels of moisture. Some teams also believe nitrogen makes for a more consistent product from tire to tire.

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RAB

01-14-2006 01:03:30




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to J.C. IN AZ., 01-13-2006 21:34:54  
What are you breathing? Air is about 80% nitrogen!!
RAB



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LMNOP

01-13-2006 22:40:03




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to J.C. IN AZ., 01-13-2006 21:34:54  
You might want to do a little research before posting(maybe you are thinking Hydrogen not Nitrogen). Why would the Air Force and commercial air lines fill their aircraft tires with nitrogen if it was more dangerous? I guess I had better run down to the local race track and tell all the guys who have those big bottles with the word NITROGEN on them to stay off the track for everyone's safety. Don't believe me? Do a google search on "nitrogen nascar tires."

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bubba 2

01-14-2006 07:37:01




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to LMNOP, 01-13-2006 22:40:03  
Why should the guy do any research when there is this place so full of wisdom?lol,now go back to bed.



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Bryan in Iowa

01-13-2006 22:32:04




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to J.C. IN AZ., 01-13-2006 21:34:54  
Nitrogen is perfectly safe in tires . Alot of racers use it in their tires . It has less moisture and therefore tires don't expand as much when using "plain ol air "



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edchainsaw

01-13-2006 20:05:49




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to danged ifino, 01-13-2006 19:38:09  
Nitrogen will leak too.. just like air because air is 80+% nitrogen.



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RAB

01-14-2006 10:23:21




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to edchainsaw, 01-13-2006 20:05:49  
OK Ed, You are right, except air is just a tad under 80% nitrogen - 78% is better.
Not trying to put you down or anything, but nearly 21% oxygen, then add moisture, carbon dioxide, noble gases (mostly argon). Rest of constituents are, or should be, in parts per million or less.
The main point is that neither air nor nitrogen should leak from a tyre at a rate that is important in any situation.
Regards, RAB
Regards, RAB

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Edchainsaw

01-14-2006 18:12:22




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to RAB, 01-14-2006 10:23:21  

I know you werent RAB.... I knew I was only approximating the #


Its been 25 yrs since I had any collage chemistry and I dont use it everyday anymore LOL.

I am glad you posted what you had earlier..... It just buggs me to no end when people DOWN the old ways when the NEW aint really anything that much better or different.



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IaGary

01-13-2006 20:37:59




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to edchainsaw, 01-13-2006 20:05:49  
Hummer trucking is going to fill there truck tires with nit. because of fuel saving. The nit. doesn't change pressure with heat like air does.
They are speading $1000's to install the pumps.



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Jubal Lee

01-14-2006 06:21:32




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 Re: NASCAR in reply to IaGary, 01-13-2006 20:37:59  
edchainsaw, you hit the nail on the ehad as to why NASCAR uses nitrogen in their tires, they can control the pressure in the tires to affect the handling characteristics because it is not affected by heat as much as plain old air.



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