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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manure

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Kirk Grau

12-30-2005 19:26:44




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OK, you guys almost always have good ideas or experience to share. My wife absolutely refuses to bed her horses in anything other than shavings. I used to have an outlet to get it off site, but after a year or so they had a lifetime supply and cut me off. I have always been told that the shavings spoil/sterilize/etc. the soil so I have not spread them, but could if it would work out OK. Have had a dumpster parked here and commercial hauler picking it up weekly, but this is prohibitively expensive. Right now my pile is getting awfully large and it is also difficult to get to this time of year since it is remote from the barn/stable.

Anybody have ideas/insight into disposal?

Thanks,

Kirk

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thejdman01

12-31-2005 14:56:51




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to Kirk Grau, 12-30-2005 19:26:44  
watch local juristictions. some local counties require all animal waste to be incorporated within 24 hours of being applied to soil to"prevent run off and well contamination". some local counties and epa officials frown on manure piles and fines can get hefty but depends on local laws just something to watch out for



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hayray

12-31-2005 12:05:02




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to Kirk Grau, 12-30-2005 19:26:44  
You can spread all you want on your fields. I spread wood shavings on my hay fields and have always heard those tales but they are not true, my soil test prove it, including ph.



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RayP(MI)

12-31-2005 12:56:53




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to hayray, 12-31-2005 12:05:02  
We use shavings and sawdust under our rabbits - got some of the most productive garden soil imaginable! You oughta see the pumpkins we raised this year.



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Kirk Grau

12-31-2005 09:28:04




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to Kirk Grau, 12-30-2005 19:26:44  
Thanks for replies so far. Our "farm" is 15 acres with 13 fenced for pasture and the remainder buildings/lanes/yard/etc. We have 5 horses stalled and another 5 in pasture care. So far nobody has really said that the shavings can be spread directly on the pasture, but nobody has said I can't either. Is it just the nitrogen depletion that would prevent me from spreading directly. If so, could I supplement with fertilizer to replace what is depleted by breaking down the shavings. I am studying the composting option also. My wife would need to give up a small area of pasture near a lane for accessibility reasons and I can probably convince her if I can find a good spot (out of sight/smell/etc.)

Thanks for the thoughts so far and let me know if you have any others to add.

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Coldiron

12-31-2005 08:11:21




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to Kirk Grau, 12-30-2005 19:26:44  
We couldnt give a mountain of the stuff away but when we put an ad in the local paper for aged horse manure with Free Worms in every batch. 10.oo a pickup load we sold it all to the city folks. There is money in that black dirt.



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Bus Driver

12-31-2005 06:39:20




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to Kirk Grau, 12-30-2005 19:26:44  
Wood debris requires lots of nitrogen for the organisms that "rot" the wood. Manure is rather low in nitrogen. The shavings plus manure plus some high-nitrogen fertilizer makes superb soil additive.



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KEH

12-31-2005 06:18:47




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to Kirk Grau, 12-30-2005 19:26:44  

Not exactly on the subject and you horse guys probably know this already, but my local sawmill man refused to saw a small amount of walnut for me because he sells sawdust to people with horses and they don"t want any walnut sawdust because something in the walnut, maybe tannic acid, gets into the horses" system through the hooves and may kill them.

KEH



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Billy NY

12-31-2005 09:34:55




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to KEH, 12-31-2005 06:18:47  
That is true, I'd have to ask a Vet or someone about the details of that, also Hemlock, something with the odor, although, we used whatever the local mill was sawing, always some native needle bearing pine, never knew about that problem with Hemlock be it myth or true.

I can't imagine why he would not do the milling, unless the least amount of that Walnut is that concentrated and or toxic. If he did the job, then cleaned up neatly, then ran some other material, you'd think that it would clear out quickly and the bad material could be isolated. I know with some species you don't want a sliver under your skin for long.

Sawdust is now a valuable commodity, years ago was not so hard to find and or get sometimes, about $10.00/ cu. yard delivered, sometimes I get it from a long time farmer and friend, he's got a tandem mack with a nice grain body on it, it holds 35 yards struck, he brings about 40 + cu. yards for $400 and trucks it 30 miles, sometimes he has a hard time getting a load, another friend who is in the hauling business grabs quite a bit in his dump trailers, think he brings it to the racetrack, not sure though, between 3 different mills and trying to get pine it can be a pain, sometimes we have to take hardwood.

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Billy NY

12-31-2005 06:05:57




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to Kirk Grau, 12-30-2005 19:26:44  
I'm not sure the quantities you are producing, but I tried an experiment at our farm, making compost. I like pine sawdust the best for bedding, and although I've been around the horse crowd all my life, I'll not try and figure some of these people out, when it comes to things like bedding, hay, feed, and whatever. I'm fortunate at our place people are more on the sensible side, but it was a struggle to convince them that compost was a good thing, they balked at it, it's manure, get rid of it, the age old stubborn mentality, right across the street our neighbor collects as much as he can and sells all of it when it's done at $20/ cu. yd. - and why are we not doing this I asked ? LOL most of what he gets comes from us and with the price of things this cannot be ignored anymore, hated to cut him off but, but dollars and sense has to be understood here, we have a payroll and other things that never go away.

Back to the subject, I made a stock pile of manure and aerated it with our front end loader, we sometimes have 30 to 40 horses at this place spring, summer and fall, down to 11 for the winter and may cut that in 1/2 this year, but there is a steady flow of material. Ater some aeration and cooking time it loses it's fresh manure like qualities and begins to smell good actually, like an oraganic gardening product, but that does not mean it is ready to use yet, it can take a year, but if you can aerate it more often, takes less time. It's a great soil conditioner, but it has to have completed it's break down cycle, or it will steal nitrogen, you will notice this if you plant in material that is not ready. At our place there is a significant amount of manure, and it does take room, I have a small 33 HP challenger tractor, that I carefully use to push up a ramp type stockpile. I'm trying to make it work myself, hopefully with what I've planned it will, we were giving it to our good friend and neighbor, who is very educated about the subject and was selling a nice finished product at $20.00/ cu. yd. delivered, he uses a 1 ton truck and makes small deliveries. We pay at least $800/ month or more for bedding but prefer good old pine sawdust from a mill that uses a circular cutting blade, not a bandsaw, it's easy to pick through, more granular and breaks down into a nice texture. The hay thing is a problem, when the horses don't like the hay, too much gets mixed in, lumps up in the pile, dangerous to run over, as you cannot grade these lumps out, it is nice when that does not happen, but it eventually breaks down too, just takes longer than the rest of the material. Sometimes we have to use sawdust from a place that handles oak and other hardwoods with a bandsaw, they deliver in 20 yd. containers and take manure to make compost as well, I don't like the hardwood as much for compost but it is fine for bedding, no problems associated with bedding except it turns black so quickly and is harder to pick through. Bags of shavings are most expensive, in my opinion and with our volume, cost of buying bulk sawdust can be offset by making and selling compost. I bought a 64 F-600 w/80,000 miles, for $1900 that was a grain truck, now I can haul in what makes the best compost, haul out a finished product and can be more selective about hay, sawdust because I can go get it wherever it is. It cost me a few hundred/year to insure under the farm, $90.00 for ag plates, but I can haul 5 ton legally. That old truck will be lucky to see half of that weight, eventually I'll have to upgrade to something newer and more suited for highway travel, but so far it looks good to turn a profit from making compost. Next is to get some analyzed by Cornell and see how I am doing, I hope to make it a wash with the costs of bedding, that'll be a huge plus, might be some unsightly piles and or windrows around, some extra flies, but it's worth it. I have not had any problems with run off and leachate so far, but it can be an issue in some places. Not the solution for everyone, but I honestly believe it can be done, large or small scale to ones benefit.

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VaTom

12-31-2005 04:49:23




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to Kirk Grau, 12-30-2005 19:26:44  
Hi Kirk, decomposing shavings will deplete N from soil. But you've added manure to the mix to mitigate that.

I pick up a truckload of aged shavings/manure every time I get a chance. Goes into my compost with whatever I have for "green", usually just weeds. Adding the compost to my garden makes great soil, full of worms, ready to grow anything. The dirt in my raised veggie beds gets better every year.

What you have is an asset, start looking at it differently. Your local gardeners would be happy to take it off your hands.

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Bret4207

12-31-2005 04:25:30




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to Kirk Grau, 12-30-2005 19:26:44  
If you're not going to use it on your own gardens or fields, sell it bagged.



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Jerry L /AZ

12-30-2005 21:48:55




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to Kirk Grau, 12-30-2005 19:26:44  
Hi Kirk, I have never heard that. we have a couple of those hay burners and the wife takes the manure and tree trimings (chipped)and the stems from the alfalfa hay grass and whatever mixes it togeather and puts it under our bushes and around the trees and they are growing like crazy. maks a great mulch. thats what we do Have a great day Jer



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BobMo

12-30-2005 19:51:18




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to Kirk Grau, 12-30-2005 19:26:44  
Kirk, your asking the wrong guys. It appears your wife knows best ask her. Good luck with that..... .



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Charles McNelly III

12-30-2005 19:37:51




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 Re: OT - What to do with pine shavings/horse manur in reply to Kirk Grau, 12-30-2005 19:26:44  
Take a backhoe and dig a hole, fill with the used shavings and BURN IT. When the ashes fill the hole, top it off with soil. Then dig another hole.



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