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Freezin' Diesels

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Allan in NE

12-18-2005 06:31:32

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Mornin' Guys,

Diesels were droppin' like flies around here at 10 degrees yesterday from gellin' fuel.

Seems we can't get any winter blend in this part of the country and everything being sold is straight #2.

Clerk told me that all the #1 is going for heating oil.

Anyone else having this irritant? Sure hate mixin' in that alcohol in my diesels.

Allan

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Hugh MacKay

12-19-2005 07:43:12

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

Allan: You indicate in your thread you don't like using alcohol in diesel fuel. I can understand your concerns. One of your respondents running truck to Alaska, quoted the effect on injectors.

Now lets compare his use to yours. His truck was probably sucking back 100 gallons of diesel per day. Compare that to your winter time use. Really, how much is a 63 year old man going to use open station tractors in sub zero weather? I think the damage you do will be at a minimum. I know this 63 year old would not use a lot of fuel without a cab.

Back when I was farming my, IH diesels never saw very much winter use. My Deere went 8 hours per day 5 days per week. That machine saw more alcohol an ether than I care to mention. Much of it's winter time operation was miles from any electricity. 14,000 hours before head or pan were off. Had one set of injectors and two pumps. One of the pumps got a dose of water in summer, had an operator not playing with a full deck.

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Allan in NE

12-19-2005 09:59:21

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-19-2005 07:43:12

Hi Hugh,

We finally agree 1000% on something! We'd better write this one down. :>)

Yep, diesel tractors just set and that's all they do around here. Just don't believe in the wear factor of a cold started diesel tractor.

Trouble is, my derned pickup is diesel too and I've got to keep it on the road. I just mix gas in the fuel. Been doin' it fer years.

Allan

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Bill46

12-19-2005 05:15:06

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

NO....NO....No....never mix gas and diesel. You never know hwere the flash point will go. Even the engineers in controlled tests cannot tell where it will go.
Been around turbine engines for years and wanted to do that because of gelling fuel. Bad news...nearly destroyed a compressor section. You might end up with a tank of fuel that will combust at 50F if your not careful. That stuff is just too unstable. Please use the right additive...don't want anyone hurt.

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phillip d

12-18-2005 17:22:18

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

Hi Allan,up here in c-c-c-cold canuck territory we add a cup of methel hydrate to a 60 galon tank of fuel.it is exellent at preventing fuel line freezing.only add the stuff when the tank is almost dry and you are filling it full to prevent from getting the mixture too strong,too much isn't good for the engine,this rate is fine.if your tank is smaller or larger than 60 gallon,just do some math to expand or reduce the amount of methel.

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buickanddeere

12-18-2005 16:40:07

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

Jet A or Jet A-1 from the local airport is pure clean kerosene.

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Bill(Wis)

12-18-2005 17:12:28

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to buickanddeere, 12-18-2005 16:40:07

Did you ever hear of anyone using Prist in a diesel? Prist is an additive for JetA to prevent icing. It is used anywhere outside air temps are expected to be below freezing in aircraft that utilze airframe mounted fuel filters in addition to engine mounted fuel filters. If the aircraft
utilizes only engine mounted fuel filters, then refer to flight manual for Prist requirement (usually about -28C or -20F).US Army used it all the time back when I was flying. It was easy to use. Came in a little spray can with a long tube that snapped onto fuel nozzle and shot a stream of Prist in with the fuel. Lo-flo Prist is what they called it. Designed for nozzle flow rate of 15-20 gpm. It was not really for fuel "gelling" but for ice from water in the fuel.

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Rich Iowa

12-18-2005 16:33:20

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

Allan, diesel are a great way to keep you busy in the winter, aren"t they? Between plugging "em in and pouring additives in the tank, who would have time for anything else? Seriously, here in central Iowa, I haven"t heard of a shortage of #1 diesel. I buy my fuel from the Flying J truck stop nearby and add Power Service to every tank. Being a truck stop, I believe their fuel is blended, but I"d rather not take the chance when it"s the only vehicle I have for the time being.

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JDknut

12-18-2005 11:42:22

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

Up here, most of us use Power Service or Power Service 911 (to thaw the system if you are already in trouble). They start selling 60-40 No. 1/No. 2 in October, since if Diesels jelled up at plus 10 this whole area would shut down in the winter. We are usually OK until it hits 25 or 30 below and stays there for a while, or if some Southern trucker comes up here into that kind of weather with a full load of "warm weather" fuel in his tanks, then people start having trouble.

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KCTractors

12-18-2005 10:54:06

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

Put 1 gallon of gas to about 100 gallons of fuel. It works great and will not hurt anything. Had 700,000 miles on a Cummins 350, no problems.

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IHC Red

12-18-2005 21:38:37

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to KCTractors, 12-18-2005 10:54:06

I know of a guy that does that too. I'm not sure of the ratio he uses though.

He put's several 100k miles on his GM pickups before he gets rid of them.

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kraigWY

12-18-2005 10:19:20

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

I have two diesel trucks and a diesel 4020, it was 12 below when I got up this morning. 20 below last week. I use anti jel and I have never had my diesels jel up.

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4020dt

12-18-2005 09:01:39

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

For quite a few years I have been using an additive made by Standadyne , the injection pump manufacturer , called "Perbormance Blend" , they make 3 or 4 different additives and that is supposed to be their best one but it has to be added prior to freeze up . It is supposed to add lubricating , cetane and all that to the low sulfur stuff we are getting today . I used to get blended fuel years back , but by adding this stuff to straight # 2 I haven't had a problem yet . I use fuel from the FS coop , both on and off road . Still using some 11% doy blend and with this additive I haven't had a problem with the older Deeres 20 and 30 series , also mack and Duramax , it was down to zero a couple weeks ago for a couple days and is supposed to get close to there tonigit . The Standadyne products are available only at Diesel Injection rebuilding places though , I have one a couple miles away and I get a couple months supply at a time .

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Mike (WA)

12-18-2005 08:42:22

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

So howzabout just buying some heating oil instead of diesel? Or am I missing something here? Being from the temperate climes of western Washington (18 degrees here this AM, BTW), I'm not real up on the gelling problem. . .

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MN Scott

12-18-2005 10:39:45

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Mike (WA), 12-18-2005 08:42:22

Heating oil is dyed red for off road use so no road taxes are paid on it. If the DOT pulls red fuel from your truck's tank its a $1000 fine. It would work fine for a tractor tho.

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MSM

12-18-2005 08:41:53

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

Somebody around you has to be selling kerosene for the home space heater market,couple gallons of that in the tank is all you need.

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bigdiesel

12-18-2005 07:16:11

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

I've always used Power Service with some success, but discovered a great new product called K-100. It sells for about $15 a quart and treats 250 gallons of diesel. Its the best thing out there and I would match it to anything. Two years ago my '94 Ford L8000 with the 8.3 Cummins gelled up at Home Depot and i bought more Power Service and put it in the tanks and the truck would barely ran. A man in the lot seen i was having trouble and gave me a small bottle of K-100. Dumped it in the tank and in about 2 minutes the truck was running smooth and full power. I never bought P/S again, even the 911 isn't that good..... .....

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the tractor vet

12-18-2005 07:12:00

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

Allen go to the closest truck stop and get a couple gal. of if ya can find it Primrose fuel treatment and give them a good dose of it of if ya can not find that then FPPF there are several others that are good but those and the two that i have used. Sure glad that we have a choise of gassers that we can use around here they always start but we did have the 1066 running yesterday to grind feed had to grind piggy feed and a batch of cow feed and the 1066 does it easier then the 706 when ya got the small screen in but it was 30 out and sunny with just a light breeze.

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Old Sarge

12-18-2005 07:03:21

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

I can understand NOT wanting to mix the alcohol with the diesel fuel, however I did it for years in over the road fuel #2 when running Lynden Wa to Fairbanks. Didn't seem to make much difference except we went through injectors fairly fast. In the winter months it would be up to -60 below and add to that the wind chill at 50+ mph you really need something to keep the fuel from turning to jelly.

I was running a KW with a 1693 CAT 425 horse, with a 15 speed box. When I traded it off , it had 420,000 miles on the odometer. Only trouble I ever had was when a grease monkey cross threaded the drain plug on the oil pan. That was at the Truck Stop of America in Las Cruces NMN. I never went there again.

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Bill(Wis)

12-18-2005 06:49:26

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

If you can get the tractor started, let it warm up really good before using, also run the highest temp thermostat you can. Put some sort of side curtains over the engine to contain engine heat, particularly around the fuel filters as that is always a likely area of freeze up. Sometimes they'll idle OK but won't run under load. In that case try to get it back in the shed and let it idle some more until hot. We used to keep a good running gasser for the coldest wx and only run the diesels in warmer weather. Now Allan: There's a great excuse (reason) to go out and buy another tractor! Of course, you could always use the horses.....

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Allan in NE

12-18-2005 07:02:46

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Bill(Wis), 12-18-2005 06:49:26

Yes Sir,

My point was that the story coming down is that all of the #1 is ear marked for heating oil right now.

Story is that there is no #1 on the 500 plus miles of US20 across Nebraska. And no one has said a word 'bout it; they just continue to peddle the thick #2, cold weather or not. :>(

We all found out yesterday with that stiff wind outta the north. Diesels sputterin' everywhere ya looked. :>)

Allan

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Coloken

12-18-2005 07:21:31

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 07:02:46

Guess no body told them it get cold in Neb. Just kind of goes along with the way the rest of the world operates. No body sems to give a dammm any more. Business and clerks used to try to be the best. Now who cares.

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Robhkent

12-18-2005 06:47:16

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2005 06:31:32

Allan:

9 here is SW IA this morning. I ahve not tried to start my 856 yet this morning, I will later after I plug it in. I just put some Power Service in my tank yesterday along with fuel (Ruby Red from FS) so I shouln't have any trouble with gelling. A couple of weeks ago when it was -10 here one morning, headed to work with my diesel truck, the fuel filter light came on. I had to limp to town at 20mph with a 4 yr old and 1 yr old girl in the truck. The station I bought the fuel in said it was blended. Their corporate office couldn't understand the difference between +10 and -10 would have on fuel. Make sure you put the treatment in your truck and in your tractor.

Rob

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Harley

12-18-2005 08:11:04

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Robhkent, 12-18-2005 06:47:16

Back in the old days Allan we used to put a gal. of regular gas into our truck tanks to every hundred gal. of diesel, Never had any problems. Harley

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4010guy

12-18-2005 09:43:57

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Harley, 12-18-2005 08:11:04

harley is right on about the gas,sounds crazy but it duz work,have a neabor that swears by a prodect that conclin sells,and i am by no way working for conclin but it never failed him even at 40 below litterley,out hear i run p40 or a #1#2mix but if i had my druthers i think i would like living in arke.maybe izard co. hear its nice thear ha!

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Allan in NE

12-18-2005 08:27:56

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Re: Freezin' Diesels in reply to Harley, 12-18-2005 08:11:04

Told ya I was old fashioned; I still do.

Only, I mix it 'bout 20:1 'er one gallon of gas to a tankful, whichever comes first. :>)

Allan

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