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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

O/T oil control in inverted engine

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rick YYC

10-12-2005 05:55:04




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Hi this is WAY off-topic but I thought there might be some ex-
aero mechanics might know: in an inverted-design engine, how is the oil kept from pooling in a piston that runs upside down?

I was looking at an old plane the other day and wondering that. This one had a 4-cyl. inline running inverted. I suppose in a radial, the cylinders one the bottom of the ring are upside down too.

So how is the oil scavenged, or does it just fling out of there on its own?

No big deal, just curious.

R

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RN

10-12-2005 15:31:41




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 Re: O/T oil control in inverted engine in reply to rick YYC, 10-12-2005 05:55:04  
Inverted 4 cyl? In a Moth? Maybe Ranger engine? Whatever, Valve cover probably has a scavenger pump to suck oil from inverted valve cover to oil tank. Compression release probable to open exhaust valve to allow oil that has drained into head area since last run to drain before starting. Usuall drill is to turn over engine with magneto gtounded- no spark, and exhaust valve open a few times. Steve Wittman had a inverted Buick V8 in a Tailwind at OshKosh a few years back. RN..

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rick YYC

10-13-2005 07:02:30




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 Re: yup. Tigoer Moth w/Menasco Pirate n/t in reply to RN, 10-12-2005 15:31:41  



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MarkB_MI

10-12-2005 18:18:48




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 Re: O/T oil control in inverted engine in reply to RN, 10-12-2005 15:31:41  
RN,

Yes I recall Steve Wittman's conversion. I dug around and found this link that describes his conversion. He added oil drains to the valve covers and ran them to a scavenge pump.

The article says Steve had two forced landings with that engine. He and his wife were eventually killed in his Tailwind. Not because of the engine, though: I believe the fabric separated from one of the control surfaces.

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RN

10-13-2005 16:15:31




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 Re: O/T oil control in inverted engine in reply to MarkB_MI, 10-12-2005 18:18:48  
Tailwind heading to Oshkosh- read that wing surface delaminated/peeled off rib?. Tailwind used plywood sheets. RN



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Coloken

10-12-2005 08:51:01




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 Re: O/T oil control in inverted engine in reply to rick YYC, 10-12-2005 05:55:04  
Good question. I know that they have a scavenger pump that keeps sucking the oil out to a supply tank. But when shut down, there must be some that settles in places like the pistons. Though is, that when you start the engine you take it easy until it splashes around and is sucked out. Course the supply side is just a pump from the external tank to the usual places. Been a long time since I walked around a cut-away R3350.
Kennyp

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Robert Lorencz

10-13-2005 06:27:14




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 Re: O/T oil control in inverted engine in reply to Coloken, 10-12-2005 08:51:01  
Worked on 3350's on Canadian Argus aircraft used for Sub hunting. On start up we counted about 10 blades before turning on mags and opening fuel cocks. Guess that made sure all oil was purged out of bottom cylinders. The old girl sure belched out the smoke and fire when she lit off though.



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Gene Davis (Ga.)

10-12-2005 07:11:56




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 Re: O/T oil control in inverted engine in reply to rick YYC, 10-12-2005 05:55:04  
Probably were dry sump oil systems with an oil resevoir seperated from the pan and pump supplying the needed oil.



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Jon Hagen

10-12-2005 10:34:12




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 Re: O/T oil control in inverted engine in reply to Gene Davis (Ga.), 10-12-2005 07:11:56  
Ever watch them prepare to start one of those engines,they will turn the engine by hand,several turns to make sure a bottom cylinder is not filled with engine oil/fuel which could hydraulic the engine and bend/break parts. Oil or fuel in a bottom cylinder may also account for the blast of oily smoke when the first fire up. The crankcase scavenger pump keeps the engine relativly free of oil except for what may drain off other parts and fill a bottom hole.

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Pat Cox

10-12-2005 15:37:15




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 Re: O/T oil control in inverted engine in reply to Jon Hagen, 10-12-2005 10:34:12  
When I was in flight training in the Navy, I flew the T-28 about 100 hours. It had a radial engine, and when you started it you always ran something like eight propeller blades (three-bladed propeller) past the canopy before you turned the ignition on and pressed the primer to put gas to the engine. That way, if you had too much oil in one of the bottom cylinders, it wouldn't bend or break a piston rod--it would just stall the starter (so they said).

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