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whoa- did you hear Bush's speech

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kraigWy

09-26-2005 08:13:35

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speaking now, he is putting waivers on fuel and gas restrictions, one is allowing red dyed (off road) fuel to be used in on road vehicles (trucks) without penality. That is gonna save me some bucks.

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cannonball

09-28-2005 06:36:56

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to kraigWy, 09-26-2005 08:13:35

nope thank god no power got it back last night..ever wonder why the last two hurricanes have hit where the large oil refineries are?? ...don't make me wonder when i see profits of these companies...and yes i expect to see a ton of replies but i can take it....have a nice day may god bless all

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Dan in Ore

09-27-2005 02:47:49

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to kraigWy, 09-26-2005 08:13:35

When it comes to politickin, all of the historians were dead wrong. "THE WORLD IS NEITHER ROUND NOR FLAT, BUT CROOKED"

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paul

09-26-2005 14:48:06

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to kraigWy, 09-26-2005 08:13:35

Does this affect the nation, or just some states? Have to be _Real_ careful here, as the dye is about collecting _state_ taxes as well, and I'd want to be sure my state - with the state troopers & county troopers being the ones going to farm auctions and testing the fuel tanks - is on board with this idea.

For the record, I only drive gassers on the road, only tractors & combines run diesel here.

--->Paul

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john in la

09-26-2005 10:18:30

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to kraigWy, 09-26-2005 08:13:35

This is old news.

We were allowed to put red dye fuel in or stations from Aug 28 till Sept 15 for Katrina. Your station may or may not have had it depending on where you live.

We are under a state of emergency so a lot of rules have changed.
No hour of service for gas haulers.
Weight restriction moved to 90,000 lbs gross instead of 80,000 lbs. Even then scales just wave you by.
Any diesel may be put into road diesel tanks.
Any RVP gas may be put into restricted RVP areas.

I would think Bush is not doing away with the tax just allowing red fuel to be used and sold as clear because of Rita just like he did for Katrina.
The way it works is a hauler goes to a rack to load diesel. If they are out of road diesel he can load off road diesel rather than having to waste time going to another location just to get road diesel. It only takes a week or so for large truck stops to flush enough clear diesel through the tank that the red dye is not visible.

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Ron 1456

09-26-2005 10:09:57

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to kraigWy, 09-26-2005 08:13:35

You still have to pay the tax if you put dyed fuel in a vehicle.

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john in la

09-26-2005 10:27:03

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Ron 1456, 09-26-2005 10:09:57

Yes you still have to pay the tax for road fuel if you fuel at the road fuel pump; but is sure gives the insiders a opportunity to fill up at the no tax pump and say it was bought at the tax pump.

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1 negative

09-26-2005 09:45:22

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again --- in reply to kraigWy, 09-26-2005 08:13:35

how are you going to get the red fuel out. always been told that just a small amount would color the tank for months. why don't they just freeze the price for 30-45 days, even if they had to have some rationing (20 gal limit for gas/diesel pickups -- 150 gal limit for 18 wheelers).

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Paul in Mich

09-27-2005 06:56:28

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Re: again --- in reply to 1 negative, 09-26-2005 09:45:22

1 negative, The Soviet system of price freezing and rationing didnt work there, and it wont work here. Rationing and price freezing simply compounds the problem which leads to more shortages and longer lines for fuel that doesnt exist. I ask you but one question. Would you rather have $5.00 per gal fuel and have fuel or would you rather have $1.00 per gal fuel and have no fuel? Free market dynamics work every time, whereas government manipulation created a false dynamic which has proved itself over and over to be a failure. It has never worked and never will.

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thejdman01

09-26-2005 14:52:12

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Re: again --- in reply to 1 negative, 09-26-2005 09:45:22

i have heard the exact same thing i have heard that a gal in a 1000 gal tank of green will chemically change the color of hte hwole tank to red. someday i will buy some green bring it home put it in a clear container put some red in a few cups and see waht happens. if the red is higher sulfer does that sink to the bottom? dont know need to expirement if i dever do will post results

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john in la

09-26-2005 10:32:33

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Re: again --- in reply to 1 negative, 09-26-2005 09:45:22

always been told that just a small amount would color the tank for months

Glad to see you believe every thing you hear. It has kept you legal all these years believing that.
The truth is if you let the tank go down to 1/4 and fuel the 1st tank will be pink and the 2nd tank will be clear.
When they lifted the red dye allowance on Sept 15 it took us 3 days to clear our 80,000 gal tank at the store selling 40,000 gals a day.

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Rick W Wisehart

09-26-2005 09:09:21

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to kraigWy, 09-26-2005 08:13:35

Bush is not going to do anything for the poor and middle class, what ever he does is for the rich only and the big companys.

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Blue guy from a red state

09-26-2005 21:15:44

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to dave from MN, 09-26-2005 14:20:51

What are some of these good beliefs?

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John S-B

09-26-2005 18:36:45

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to dave from MN, 09-26-2005 14:20:51

Hmmm, Grog not understand word you say.

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Illinois Boy

09-26-2005 09:31:49

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Rick W Wisehart, 09-26-2005 09:09:21

Bush?? He can't do squat - only Congress can help us out financially...
And, NO Representative or Senator is going to do anything for anybody, except themselves. The sooner everyone learns that we only "bother" them, the better you'll understand the way they think.
Ask yourself this, does the guy/gal I voted for represent me in Washington? If they represent a farmer, it is a big time guy working 12,000 acres!
Just watch - this country is fast losing the middle class. It will become a land of only the rich and the poor.
Greed run amuck!!!

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Farmall Teen

09-26-2005 18:39:39

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Illinois Boy, 09-26-2005 09:31:49

We say that Bush bought his way into the whitee house. Now that he got that payed off, he is controlling the gas companines by paying them to get the price they want. Now here are some of my grandpa's sayings about this type of stuff:
"Money talks, bull$hit walks or "The money talks, the true walks. Gotta love shade tree talk during thise hot summer days on the farm.

My to cents, Farmall Teen

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Bob

09-26-2005 08:38:36

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to kraigWy, 09-26-2005 08:13:35

Yeah... save YOU some money, but take tax funds away from the highway system, while the price-gouging oil companies still get their full price... think about it!!!

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Mark - IN.

09-26-2005 17:10:39

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Bob, 09-26-2005 08:38:36

That's kind've a funny arguement from my Indiana politician's point of view, and somehow they're arguing with themselves about it.

Here's what I mean. Many counties, mine included (Elkhart) adopted a "wheel tax", which is an annual fee ranging from $25 to up. The reason that they say was necessary is because of more and more folks going to "more fuel concious" automobiles, folks are actually using less fuel at the pump, which mean that tax revenues are down to maintain roads, so must be made up another way, a "wheel tax" for the past couple of years. However, the same politicians just recently used statistics to say fuel consumption is way up, and causes more polution. Now, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an accountant or rocket scientist, but the two do not equate. It seems to me that it's not possible to need to put a "wheel tax" on vehicles because tax revenues are down at the pump, at the same time fuel consumption is way up but the tax rates haven't gone down. Am I just stupid, or what?

My heart pumps sewer water for the revenuers, and will continue to do so, at least until they clean up their acts. Is less money being moved from my wallet into someone else's no matter how I look at it.

Mark

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Paul in Mich

09-27-2005 06:06:19

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Mark - IN., 09-26-2005 17:10:39

Mark, you dont have to be an accountant nor a rocket scientist to recognize "Double Talk". I"ve said it here on more than one occasion that reduced fuel consumption will in no way reduce the cost of traveling on the roads. States depend on fuel consumption for highway and road maintainance, so if Joe Citizen trades his "Gas Guzzling SUV" which circulated $40,000 back into the economy for a fuel efficient "Mini Cooper", which he can hardly squeeze into, he will soon find himself paying Mileage tax or in your state, "Wheel tax" to compensate the difference in tax revenue. Some states have already implemented such tax and others are soon to follow. What I object to, however is the SUV owner being double taxed. Gallonage, and Mileage. The politicrooks have it all figured out, and not in our favor. I wonder how much of the additional tax will really be used for highways. Probably the same percentage that was earmarked for levee maintainance in Louisiana but got diverted to the state politicians pet projects. Are there really people who think we need more government? Looks to me like we have more than enough already.

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Mark - IN.

09-27-2005 16:44:21

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Paul in Mich, 09-27-2005 06:06:19

Paul, i forgot about the SUV tax. Don't have one in Indiana yet, but heard there is one in Massachusettes, and is a substancial one as I understand it. You are correct. Tax, and spend, tax and spend, tax and spend. And when is not enough to cover phoney boloney spending, tax more. That SUV tax is double phoney boloney. And, as far as milage tax like Oregon is looking to do, or did, last I heard were 4 more states looking to do that, and are looking at it on a federal level as well.

Sooner or later Paul, something's gotta or going to blow.

Mark

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Rev JJ

09-27-2005 06:12:48

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Paul in Mich, 09-27-2005 06:06:19

Fuel taxes are the reason there has been little done to promote alternative fuel. We have gas and diesel taxes, how can they tax what doesn't yet exist?

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Paul in Mich

09-27-2005 07:03:10

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Rev JJ, 09-27-2005 06:12:48

Rev, I dont know, but they keep trying. Taxing and regulating non existing things is nothing new. If all the taxes and regulations we"ve paid to stop global warming was used to stop global warming, we"d have paid enough in to create global cooling by now.

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Mark - IN.

09-27-2005 16:57:44

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Paul in Mich, 09-27-2005 07:03:10

Paul, kind've like the cigarette settlement in the state of Illinois when owned property there. Was in the $Billions, and was to cover the cost of second hand smoke damage, off set medical bills associated with smoking, be used to educate not to smoke. What happened was that residents that owned property for 10 years prior to the settlement got a check for $90 each, and more depending upon the value of the property, which somehow mattered for second hand smoke intake. I didn't own property 10 years prior to, so no check for me, which I would've burned. The rest went into the General Fund.

Could get me going on the Illinois State lottery, which was passed to cover education, but year after year, grades and quality of education diminished and new taxes to bolster were implimented, and folks began asking "What about the lottery funded/supplimented education?". The answer was a law that was passed to reappropriate it into the General Fund, which went to everything but education. Tax and reappropriate into the General Abuse Fund.

By the way, what ever happened to that Social Security "Lawk Bawx"? No one bought one, I guess. LOL, but not really.

Mark

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RustyFarmall

09-26-2005 09:20:46

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Bob, 09-26-2005 08:38:36

Bob while I agree with what you just said, if you were to travel the highways around here you would soon realize that none of that fuel tax is being used for repairing and maintaining roads anyhow. I don't know whose pocket it is going into, but it is not being spent on roads.

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John S-B

09-26-2005 18:33:19

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to john in la, 09-26-2005 11:49:28

John, I just came from there. Man, I can't imagine that happening to me!! Don't think I could handle that, I'd just have to walk away. Lot of people who barely had squat lost that.

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John (MO)

09-26-2005 13:59:37

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to john in la, 09-26-2005 11:49:28

I think there is quite a difference between not rebuilding with government money, something that sits below sea level, and not allowing someone to build with their own money in a state that once had a tornado. I think if you deside to build in a flood plain that's your decission and risk, any you ought to sign a waver that the rest of us aren't responsible for helping you out if and when that flood comes.
If stupidity hurt more, people would learn faster.

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Redmud

09-26-2005 12:59:26

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to john in la, 09-26-2005 11:49:28

John, I have a friend that bought land in a flood plain a few miles from a large lake, and you sure couldn't tell by looking that it was a flood plain. He built a large barn to keep his equipment in while he built their new house. camped many weeks and week ends to get it done. I spent a few weekends there myself. Almost every day Goverment cars and trucks would pass by, but never stop. After the house was finished and they had moved in, one of the Goverment cars stopped, and the Goverment dude told my friend, that the house and barn was in a flood plain and would have to be moved. after two or three years of court battle the Goverment won, the house and barn was torn down, my friend was broke, and the Goverment and tax payer was out nothing. And this house and barn was built with all legal permits. I don't think my friend will ever get over it. I doubt that he feels sorry for those in La. But I haven't asked. And I bet he is really pi$$ed that his tax money is spent to help someone that lost their house, get a new one.

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dhermesc

09-26-2005 12:32:23

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to john in la, 09-26-2005 11:49:28

The proposed 200 BILLION in bail out is enough to give every man, woman and child in the affected areas over $100,000 each. Which is about 100 times more then they should get.

Anyone building in a 100 year flood plain should have their ^$%& kicked, let alone given a check to build in the same place so they can get another check next year.

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Galen

09-26-2005 15:56:44

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to dhermesc, 09-26-2005 12:32:23

EXACTLY! I have sympathy for those who lost everything, BUT...If you live in a soup bowl, ya gotta figure that, sooner or later, somebody's gonna fill it with soup.

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Harley

09-26-2005 12:55:00

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to dhermesc, 09-26-2005 12:32:23

dhermesc, you hit the nail right smack on the head. Rebuilding in that below-sea-level sewer is kinda like leaning in to a right hook ain't it? Stupid. Harley

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Blue guy from a red state

09-26-2005 21:11:22

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Harley, 09-26-2005 12:55:00

Yeah, lets forget about rebuilding N.O. and go bomb the sh_t out of someplace halfway around the world and rebuild that sand trap.

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john in la

09-26-2005 13:02:56

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Harley, 09-26-2005 12:55:00

Even though I am not below sea level this is the reason I am looking to move.

But you all have still not answered the question of where we put all these people. Remember no one can live in southern Tx La Miss Ala Fla; eastern SC NC Virginia; Western Calif; No where in Mo Ill Ind Iowa Neb Ky.
These all are problem areas from hurricanes; tornadoes; earthquakes; floods from rivers and sea; ect.

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dhermesc

09-26-2005 13:58:40

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to john in la, 09-26-2005 13:02:56

If a tornado wipes out my house, I pick up the peices and start over again - I don't wait for the national guard to haul off the mess, FEMA to hand me check and Habitat for Humanity to build me a new one.

Cities are built on flood plains because they offer nice level building areas with few surprises in the way of rock and utility installation. Initial cost is low, long term cost is high.

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john in la

09-26-2005 15:56:21

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to dhermesc, 09-26-2005 13:58:40

See that is where you all are letting the national media buffalo you. You think every one is getting a new house; thousands of dollars to live on while this house is being built; and will be better off now than they were before the storm. You should read the post I did the other day about things I learned about my city from the national media.

While many will get free stuff these people were and are on welfare any way. Now if you want to talk about stopping welfare payments and making every one get a job I will have to agree with you and say this is way over board.

But lets talk average Joe that has a job like you and me and his house was under 8' of water.
He has flood insurance backed by the government just like some one in St Louis has.
He was given or able to get a $2000 debit card from FEMA; MRE's for food; Water and Ice; and can get help from the Red Cross.
He then shows his house to the insurance company and since it is covered by 2 insurance companies they fight over who is suppose to pay. All the while the home owner sits on his hands because he has no money to rebuild.
Then finally the insurance company pays off but keeps the $2000 to repay FEMA. He gets to keep the MRE's water and ice for free.
If he has no insurance the $2000 is free but he then has to go through the long process of getting a LOAN backed by FEMA much like a government backed student loan.
The Red Cross money is from donations from others around the country and from other countries. It does not come out of tax dollars so does not have to be repaid. If you do not like this program just do not donate. Most of the $200 billion will be used to rebuild state and federally owned stuff like the interstate that was washed away and to take care of all the _ _ _ _ _ _ _ on welfare.

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john d

09-26-2005 15:42:33

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to dhermesc, 09-26-2005 13:58:40

I can agree with some of what you say...BUT....let's not start using the "Tornado-and-my-house" thing as a fits-all example. I spent some time cleaning up my relative's place that was destroyed during the 1965 Palm Sunday tornado outbreak in Indiana. The devastation was total. BUT - I could walk out of that path 1/4 mile to the north or south and be back to electricity, running water, open roads, etc. The hurricanes cut a swath many miles wide. Federal support is all that's going to put the area back on its feet.

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Scotmac

09-26-2005 11:37:09

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to buickanddeere, 09-26-2005 10:35:19

They're spending money on roads in Iowa! New freeway around the east side of Des Moines, New four lane from Des Moines to the Mississippi, and just completeing the last leg of being four lane from the Minnesota border to Missouri. I discussed the diesel fuel debacle with a friend of mine who has several trucks running. He says Exxon-Mobile made profits of 69 billion last year. They paid in taxes to the US Government 39 billion. The boys in DC will not even attempt to put a damper on that. They're going to let prices settle where ever they want!

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730 virgil

09-26-2005 10:15:34

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to RustyFarmall, 09-26-2005 09:20:46

rusty i thought you live in iowa ? i known where our tax money goes right to king richard , cook county
and city of chicago

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09-26-2005 12:12:16

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to 730 virgil, 09-26-2005 10:15:34

Wisconsin- Dem gov Doyle did some budget juggling - took fuel tax money from road fund and ended it in school fund, school fund money that was replaced ended in general fund, some of that was tax relief for property tax to fulfill campaighn promise.

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big fred

09-26-2005 08:55:41

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Bob, 09-26-2005 08:38:36

Much rather have money go to a private company than to the gummint. Least I have the option of getting something back out of it by buying their stock.

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Matt from CT

09-26-2005 09:39:37

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LOL Big Fred...that's one of the most intelligent. in reply to big fred, 09-26-2005 08:55:41

That's one of the most intelligent arguements I have heard!

I don't have much patience for those who want to drop the gas taxes due to high prices...

If we're paying the high price w/tax...we'll pay it w/o the tax and private industry has bigger profits.

Or you drop the price, demand overshoots supply, and you can't buy gas...

So while I don't support dropping the taxes, at least your arguement makes a lot more sense than those who think dropping the tax during supply near-shortages would drop the price...

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Paul in Mich

09-27-2005 06:48:46

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Re: LOL Big Fred...that's one of the most intellig in reply to Matt from CT, 09-26-2005 09:39:37

Matt, When is the last time any city, state, or country ever taxed itself into prosperity? I"ll make it easy for you.....It has NEVER happened. It may also come as a complete surprise to you, and those who think "bigger profits" by private industry is a social evil made right by government taxation or regulation, but in fact it is the exact opposite. Private industry, regardless of how much "excess profit" we percieve them to make, recirculates that profit into the economy at a far greater percentage than does government. The very best we get from government is 22 cents for every dollar we send to the government. That means that 78 cents out of every dollar is lost in the beauocracy. Your statement that "demand overshoots supply" is exactly right, but as long as Oil companies are producing at a profit, you will eventually get the fuel you need, however, if the government steps in and freezes prices or rations, or in other ways manipulates the free market real supply and demand dynamics with a false dynamic, then oil companies are not going to be able to provide enough fuel, because they simply are not going to operate at a deficit. I ask but one question.....Would you rather have $3.00 per gal. or $5.00 per gal fuel and have fuel, or would you rather have $1.00 per gal fuel and have no fuel? We wittnessed that scenerio back in the 70"s. Do we need to relive that fiasco to jog our short memories? Allow free market forces to work....They work every time.

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1 negative

09-26-2005 08:34:56

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what about - - - - in reply to kraigWy, 09-26-2005 08:13:35

when they put the restriction back on? how are you going to get the "red" out? i don't think adding visine will help.

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Bill WI

09-27-2005 06:49:26

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Re: what about - - - - in reply to 1 negative, 09-26-2005 08:34:56

Just like everything else he thinks up, no foresight. Then create a department to fix it.

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09-26-2005 08:51:10

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Re: what about - - - - in reply to 1 negative, 09-26-2005 08:34:56

Good one!

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Midwest redneck

09-26-2005 08:14:55

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to kraigWy, 09-26-2005 08:13:35

I didnt hear what he said, fill us in on the speech.

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Jerry Cent. Mi.

09-26-2005 13:10:05

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Midwest redneck, 09-26-2005 08:14:55

Lets at least give Bush credit for trying. That better than a lot of that bunch is doing. Lets thank him for the tax reduction the DAMOCRATS want to take back.

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CREDIT?

09-26-2005 14:09:03

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Jerry Cent. Mi., 09-26-2005 13:10:05

Look at the shape this country is in. Yes,he can take that credit too.

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Mark - IN.

09-26-2005 17:32:25

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to CREDIT?, 09-26-2005 14:09:03

I hope that you aren't referring to outsourcing of jobs to places like, say, China are you? Because it wasn't the current President that granted China most favored nation trade status in return for campaign contributions to the political party of which he currently heads. That would be the last guy in the oval office that did that, and that would be his political party, and his Senator wife's I might add. I could add the former Vice-President, but will give him the benefit of the doubt since he says drank too much iced tea or lemonade (I forgot which one he said) during that meeting, and was in the bathroom relieving himself when that deal was made. Yep, you and myself are reaping the benefit of a trade defecit to China, GATT, and WTO, all brought to us by... not the current President, but the last guy. Isn't hard to go back into history and find out whom signed us up for what we're living out today.

Mark

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WOW Mark!

09-27-2005 03:00:00

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Mark - IN., 09-26-2005 17:32:25

You really don't know what's going on , do you. The whole NAFTA plan was written under Bush Sr. Go into the NAFTA web site and look for yourself.

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Mark - IN.

09-27-2005 17:12:28

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to WOW Mark! , 09-27-2005 03:00:00

NAFTA, which I didn't mention is small potatos when compaired to GATT or free trade with China. Tell me what the trade deficit is with Mexico or Canada as compaired to China? How many bought in America, but made in Mexico or Canada products do you find? Pretty close to none. Compare that to China? Or what our exports to China are, as compared to imports, and that's why you will find a trade deficit in the $Billions annually, in China's favor. And who's name is all over GATT, WTO, or "free trade with China"? Won't be Bush or Bush. Will find the guy in between. Yep, I'm deaf, dumb, and blind.

I will give the current president a good bashing in that it's him who's causing the trade deficit in illegal aliens, driving wages down in this country, at the same time the product trade deficit continues to sky rocket with China.

When it comes to passing the blame, as a whole I'm non-partisan, in that it cuts down both sides of the political aisle in that cesspool called DC. I have no problem giving credit where credit is due.

And I certainly stand behind the post below about Riaty and the Lippo Group, it certainly did happen.

Mark

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Jerry Cent. Mi.

09-26-2005 18:15:46

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Mark - IN., 09-26-2005 17:32:25

The glass is almost empty for some people.

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Mark - IN.

09-26-2005 19:16:10

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Re: whoa- did you hear Bush's speech in reply to Jerry Cent. Mi., 09-26-2005 18:15:46

Yep. Then could get into campaign contributions to that same fella from John Riady and the Lippo Group resulting in turning 10,000 acres of low sulphur coal in Utah into a national park. That low sulphur coal fired by power plants by EPA regulation could be found in two places, those 10,000 acres (now off limits) and in Indonesia (The Lippo Group). Wasn't the current President that did that, was the last guy.

Mark

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